taken from the link http://www.oriononline.org/pages/om/04-4om/Jones.html which I already posted above, but which, sadly was unread by some:

"Most Americans,...assume these animals met a painless end, if they think about it at all...what happens to animals at slaughter. But every now and then that reality flashes briefly across the public consciousness..."
&
"Mohandas Gandhi said that a nation's moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals. Animal behavior scientists have proven unequivocally that animals are not machines but sentient beings that experience feelings of pain, fear, anxiety, and despair. These feelings matter to the animal and they should matter to us. If Gandhi is right, we have an obligation to know what happens to animals when they are killed to feed us, and to let that knowledge inform our actions..."
&
Upton Sinclair's classic novel The Jungle, published in 1906, exposed the brutal conditions for both animals and humans in Chicago slaughter plants at the turn of the twentieth century. He likened the slaughterhouse to a dungeon where horrible crimes were committed, "all unseen and unheeded." The uproar over the disclosure of what people were really eating prompted passage of the nation's first food-safety law. There was to be no relief, however, for the workers who toiled long hours under dangerous conditions for little pay, or for the animals who were mercilessly bludgeoned to death with sledgehammers. Sinclair was disappointed. "I aimed at the public's heart, and by accident I hit it in the stomach, he lamented."
&
"From 1989 through the mid-1990s, Eisnitz, a determined woman in her forties with a background in natural resources management, crisscrossed the U.S. documenting slaughterhouse abuses. She learned about cattle slaughter plants where cattle were hoisted upside down, the lower part of their legs snipped off, their thighs and bellies cut open, and their skin stripped from their legs up to their necks, all while the animals were still conscious. She investigated pig slaughter plants where inadequately stunned and fully alert animals were dragged through tanks of scalding water, kicking and struggling until they drowned."

Hello Heather

we CAN'T find a way of ending our simultaneous obedience to two diametrically opposed cultural (spiritual) edicts!

Please elaborate on the TWO opposite edicts.

Thank you for confirming that Animal Liberation is nothing more than an attempt to promulgate a new religion. The Church of Latter Day Animal Worshippers.

After researching aboriginal hunters I now offer a prayer to the animals I am about to hunt and make an offering (sliced apple or carrot) to their spirits facing the morning breeze. It seems effective --I'm finding more feral goats. It is possible to be spiritual and a hunter gatherer. The harvested organic meat nourishes my soul and body. Every mouthful reminds me of the fleeting existence we have on earth.

While the birds chirped on a clear autumn morning, my first deer instantly & humanely died from a head shot. The .270 Winchester's roar silenced the birds for about 10 seconds. Life continued unfazed, clouds rolled on, wind wafted across the grass, rabbits frolicked and the birds flitted from branch to branch. A noticeable wave of emotion and respect (realisation) for the natural order passed through my body -- truly a religious experience.

40 years later I can still see the flick of his left ear as the cross hairs momentarily settled between his eyes, just before I gently squeezed the trigger ending his life. As a consequence I would never be a completely modern man or a metro sexual. I connected to my inner self, the inner voice evolved over eons that talks to me every time I set off hunting at sunrise with senses alert and my nostrils full of the aroma of the bush. Movingly silently, observing anything and everything that moves, patiently waiting for the 5 seconds or so after many hours of stalking. The life of the modern passionate hunter -- who respects wildlife knowing that Happiness is in the Pursuit.

A truly spiritual person would be more interested in their own ethics instead of the ethics of others.

Heather, at some point you have to stop worrying about what others
think and learn to reason, based on your own abilities. Frankly
I don't care what Gandhi thought, I care what I think and why.

You might be emotionally engulfed or philosophically challenged,
but at the end of the day, you cannot deny the laws of nature.

Fact is that we all get recycled, no matter which species.
When your time is up and you fall off the proverbial perch,
the worms will chew up your carcass, thats the reality. :(

I love animals too and I try to look after those in my care.
I try to avoid any of them suffering, unlike humans, which we
torture to their last breath, in the name of religion.

But I accept that they will die, just like I will, and they don't
really care about what happens after that, just like I don't.

One species eating another is all part of nature itself. Deny that
and you fooling nobody but yourself. It might feel good, but
then reality does not go away, when you close your eyes and wish it
would.

If populations were not kept in check, the net result would be far
more beings dying of starvation, as resources run out, which is not
a pretty sight.

So I have long ago learnt to accept the laws of nature. To me death
is not an issue, its part of the journey of life. Best to just avoid
suffering, of ourselves and of other species.

Gahndi clearly never thought through that one...

Think about it.

For anyone within tuning-in range of the current affairs show called "Today Tonight" on Australian TV, there will be a follow up program, EARLY THIS WEEK (not sure which day so you would have to watch each day from today, to not miss it) about further investigations that have been made into the live animal export trade from Australia to Egypt.

No 'reverential participatory hunters' there .. unless of course the Egyptian Slaughterhouse workers have been on a crash course called something like "Participatory, Reverential Hunting - as it applies to factory farmed animals shipped live to Egypt from Australia in the 21st Century!"

It is heartbreaking to say that unfortunately it is REALISTIC to expect that there will be something that rageful-sadists may well 'slaver' over in the 'meaty pics' that may be shown - if the last investigation was anything to go by. When that investigation went to air there was footage of an Egytian worker using a stick, which he had stabbed through a cow's eye, as 'the handle' by which to lead the cow around at his will!

FACTORY FARMING is NOT about 'quick death', 'skillfully placed bullets from the Winchester' nor 'reverence for the animal killed'. There may well be sub-cultures within current Western Society where these 'lesser evils' apply DO apply .. just as there have been major indigenous cultures around the world where there were truely justifiable and reverential hunting practices.

If modern day proponents of 'reverential, cruelty-free killing of animals for human consumption' want to be TRUELY participatory in the century in which they live .. then THE NEEDED PARTICIPATION is for you to GET INVOLVED IN STOPPING THE CRUEL & COWARDLY PRACTICES INFLICTED UPON FACTORY FARMED ANIMALS! No? I thought not! It's so much easier for the would-be John Waynes on this forum to NOT simply argue their case, but rather, to be insulting and/or make veiled threats to those of us who take an opposing view!

Wow Dickie, all that name calling! Perhaps its the
orange hair that did it :)

You clearly missed the point of my last post completely,
it was about eating meat.

I remind you that plenty of meat is produced to give
consumers choices. Free range eggs, free range chucks,
free range lamb and beef. Free range pork if you look
for it. Consumers are free to choose and they vote
with their wallets every day. Its all happening at
your nearest Coles or Woolies store every day.

As to the condition of animals on live ships, I will
let qualified vets determine if those animals are
treated humanely or not, not fanatical or hysterical
vegans. Last time I checked up, Australia had the
world's highest standards when it came to shipping
live animals.

If there is a problem in the ME, they have been
eating meat since time began. Lets do something to
change it, as farmers are doing, being the only
ones. Can you say the same Dickie? How much money
have you spent on improving animal welfare in the
middle East? Fact is that a place like Saudi Arabia
imports around 12 million live sheep a year, with
or without Australian sheep. I've put forward useful
suggestions as to what people like you could do
to make a difference, but no, better to just continue
with the hysteria, rather then much rational thought.

This thread has got completely out of hand and I have suspended one user. It is not acceptable on this forum to question people's sexuality, taunt them, call them names, shout by using capitals etc.

We are fairly tolerant, but there are limits. I will be keeping an eye on the thread, and any further infringements will be dealt with more severely in light of this warning.