..Although, in Australia, and other western countries, we still have slavery cases - all involve those from non-western countries, here is just one example of a Muslim telling a U.S court that it is his culture to behave in such manner (which is all I am saying yet you attack me viciously).

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/2006/11/014093print.html

There have been many slave cases this year in the U.S I've followed, all involving Muslims, not southern Texans.

Australia had it's first slavery case this year, again it was a non-westerner. I believe such instances occur because the cultural values of such groups are excellent breeding grounds for intolerance, as seen in their own nations conclusively.

On western history, which you deride, why do you want to see western history as filth? This is racist.

You bring up Iraqi history to show that our culture came from here, again this is true. What is your point?

All I'm saying is that we have better values, morality. It can only be that you consider us all different tribes that you bring this up in the first place.

I don't think that way.

It doesn't matter that civilisation started there, it's about the way we live now. Whether people can handle criticism, have safety nets for the poor, treat each other fairly, it is this I am proud of about Europe and the west.

But all are invited to live like this. Just because the enlightenment happened in Europe doesn't mean it's an exclusively white thing.

You claim all culture has virtues, again revealling ignorance. Does this extend to the Taliban, or Nazi Germany, or southern Texan rednecks?

You can't possibly believe Nazi Germany, even though highly advanced technologically, were good people. They only extended tolerance to those who thought the same way.

I am not against those of other cultures, I am against their values, and despite your vitriol, you haven't shown me that it is racist.

I also forgive you for your insults.

anti-Benjamin-bigot

"There have been many slave cases this year in the U.S I've followed, all involving Muslims, not southern Texans"

Try reading something other than Islamic hate sites you may learn something.

http://www.polarisproject.org

I will apologise for calling you a maggot, the other adjectives still stand.

Go on complain and have us suspended, didn't you know dobbing is un- Australian.

You are the one showing peurile tendancies, sorry I won't grow up I nearly hit my head in doorways already. :)

logic,
Australia has not been multicultural since the first fleet. We have been multi-racial, which is an entirely different thing. Everyone was subject to British law (even aboriginals)until 1900 (Federation). After that Australia began its own identity. Since then we have evolved a different culture from Britain. We do not have the same social hierarchy as Britain, and our Senate is based on the USA Senate.

The term multicultural did not come into being until about 1972, when Al Grazzby borrowed it from Canada.

How can you say we are multicultural when we do not allow so many aspects of other cultures. Our laws take precedenance over any other religous or cultural beliefs. Child marriages and FGM are important aspects of other cultures in India and Middle East/north Africa but not allowed here.

We are mono-cultural, but with an acceptance of other cultural aspects providing they do not transgress our basic cultural values.
So other cultures can practice SOME of their culture, like religion, folk dancing, music, their cusine and so on.

Rainier,
" That the majority of cultural groups have contributed signifiently to the social fabric of this nation more than they have damaged it".

I agree, but you cannot claim that multiculturalism is responsible for this as the contributions of those that came before multiculturalism was even thought of wsas also of great significance.
So multiculturalism does not have anthing to do with that.

As I have said before, multiculturalism divides people into tribes or groups, each trying to find their place in the pecking order and lobbying politicians to get that place. Politicians are the only one to gain from multiculturalism by chasing the ethnic vote. that is why Labor politicians go to the end of Ramadam at Lakembla and John Howard will be guest speaker at a big Chinese dinner before the next election.

Banjo, you ask whether laws that ban certain cultural practices mean we fail to be a genuinely multicultural society. I think not. I mean, the British recently banned fox-hunting. Does that make them less British?

An Englishman today cannot bait bears, hunt foxes, go to a public execution, beat his wife, or smoke inside a pub; but I’ll be you he feels just as much an Englishman as one who used to do all those things quite legally in generations past. Culture isn’t fixed, it changes and evolves like everything else. Ask me to find a culture that is fixed, eternal and unchanging, and I’ll show you Ancient Rome, Ancient Greece, Ancient Egypt...you get the idea.

Culture is more than a set of practices, and it certainly isn’t demarcated by laws: it’s an identity – and that identity can also change and evolve, through any permutation of legal changes or, for that matter, changes of homeland.

So I think your distinction between multiculturalism and integration is a false dichotomy. They’re not mutually exclusive. You can identify yourself by any number of different “labels” and none of those need preclude you from contributing to Australian society.

Go back and look at the initial policy frameworks of multiculturalism as devised by Al Grassby and as promoted by Fraser – and today under Andrew Robb. There’s nothing there that precludes integration: it simply allows people to participate in Australian life while bringing with them other aspects of their identity.

The Australianer-than-thou people on this forum howling their outrage at multiculturalism, and the belief that different laws present a problem for cultural identity, all assume quite wrongly that culture is fixed, that multiculturalism means wholesale acceptance of other cultures, that change is a weakness and our brains are genetically fixed to think certain thoughts.

Since “obviously” is such a fan of Richard Dawkins, he should be aware of the power of memes in influencing thought. He should also know that genetic studies have found more genetic difference within ethnic groups than between ethnic groups, despite the “extreme” differences he postulates.

Benjamin, yet again you are asking me to deny that which I never said. The written record shows I’ve said nothing to you about Iraq, about “mud on faces” or Mesopotamia or the west stealing technologies from the developing world. I haven’t called you “irrational names”. I’ve even defended you against the most egregious insults hurled your way in this place. I’ve not written in anger, or fury, and I defy anybody to find such in my comments. Yet Benjamin you ascribe all this, and worse, to me.

The written record of my comments throughout this forum and others shows the many elements of Western cultures I have praised – and those I have criticised – which is a far more even-handed treatment of the West than your triumphal, one-eyed, unquestioning praise.

Yet despite all this, in return, you offer to me the McCarthyist tactic of putting words in my mouth and asking me to deny I said them. This is the same Star-Chamber, Stalinist show-trial treatment you gave me when we last debated two weeks ago.

I concluded then you were debating in bad faith, and decided it was best to ignore your comments in future. When I saw your comments on this forum, I thought to give you the benefit of the doubt and respond. I shall not make that mistake a second time, and I won’t be verballed by you again in this place.

And for the record, I did show in my post of November 20 precisely in what fashion your comments were racist; in that you attribute certain characteristics to certain ethnic groups based upon their prevalence in certain occupations. That you would ascribe this to race without consideration of other factors is textbook racism.

But, I have learnt my lesson – debating you is a waste of time because you do so in bad faith.

Sneekepete,mercurius

“The myths he clings to about race simply are just that - from a genetic point of view there is actually greater differences within racial groups than between them”-sneekepete ,
accept that difference between races and species is considered the important factor of evolution, as opposed to the difference in the genetic pool of an isolated population. I will expand later.

“The myths he clings to about race simply are just that - from a genetic point of view there is actually greater differences within racial groups than between them”-sneekepete ,
Sneeke you’re not just in my opinion, but also infact factually wrong in not admitting to race. Race does exist As follows....

Stick with me now (concentrate), an example of your flawed statement.

Think of 100 individuals of one distinct race ( RACE A) as cups of water.
Each cup (individual) is filled with different amounts (types of genes) of water.
Now think of 100 individuals of another distinct race (RACE B) as cups of water.
Once again each cup(individual) is filled with different amounts(types of genes) of water.

The difference within RACE A’s cups of water (individuals) is 50ml to 250ml, meaning 200ml (or 200 genes difference within RACE A.)
Now the difference within RACE B’s cups of water (individuals) is between 100ml and 250ml (or 150 genes difference within RACE B)

Now we compare RACE A with RACE B, meaning 150genes and 200genes (only 50 unique genes difference between racial groups)

CONCLUSION:
200 genes difference within RACE A.
150 genes difference within RACE B.
*only 50 (unique to each race) genes difference between racial groups A and B*

SUMMARY:
But here’s the catch.

Those 50 genes are the most important, they are the distinct genes that cause the RACIAL characteristics!

Those 50 genes in that test case, play an extremely important role in defining a race’s physical and mental characteristics, i.e. (straight/curly hair, bone/facial structure, hormones, muscle development, cognitive(<wont expand on that), development patterns, parts of (culture), susceptibility to diseases, intolerance to alcohol, hunter/gatherer, tribe to civilization mentality......etc)

The importance of these unique racial genes?
Cont.....