A four year wait is fine... this is for people who presumably have a permanant resident status anyways. These people aren't terribly inconvenienced IMHO - unless they're wanting to leave the country (ie to live OS), claim welfare, and/or use the Visa as a stepping stone.

I liked JaneS' comments very early in the thread.

Did we whiteys integrate when we came to Australia?

Did we learn the language?

Did we accept a set of values or learn their customs?

OOps I forgot integration only applies after you steal the land from it's original inhabitants... Phew I thought for a second people were being hypocritical...

For those who like to boast of their Christianity and Christian values amongst us ... when it says "Thou shalt not steal" does that rule apply to Christians or allegedly Christian Governments taking land off aborigines?

I wonder?

Opinionated....

you have some very pertinent points.
The land issue is probably the most difficult to feel comfortable with. In reality, that question is best directed toward those involved at the time, because most of us are as much subsequent "victims of history" ourselves.

Probably the best thing is to turn the question around at u.. are YOU ready to give up your land to Indigenous people ? I'll guarantee that if you looked hard enough you could find some who have a connection to yours (if u have any).

I've often thought of doing something like this.. finding Indigenous people in Melbourne, particularly those who have a connection to my own land, and telling them that 2 or 3 families can live freely on it.
Conditions would be:
a) Live traditionally, come and go as they please.
b) Hunt/Gather (in the Dandenongs)
c) Don't take or hurt what is mine.

Then I thought of another option.

The state government should compulsorily acquire all houses on the banks of Gardiners creek, and allow Aboriginals who have a connection to that area dwell in them. (Box Hill) A similar approach might be good on the banks of all major creeks.

Its a difficult one. The other option is seek to totally assimilate and integrate them, and compensate them such that they can then live as we do. I spoke with some indigenous people at the Maroondah festival this year. All they want is 'Equality'.

For practical purposes, I don't think the mass expulsion of you and me and all our kind would lessen the problem, rather it would create worse. I'd be wanting the same approach to ancestral lands in the Scottish Highlands... i.e. given back.

Seeking to assimilate newcomers to our core values is quite right.

"I liked JaneS' comments very early in the thread."
That may well be something they teach in our Universities these days; Although to romanticize about running around in Loin cloth bashing each other over the head in a Tribal War hardly seems civilized or anything to romanticize about ; But don’t let good Subjective Guilt trip get in the way of a good old propaganda campaign;

You would be surprised to learn that there are a great many Aborigines who would take great offence at your suggestions.

But if that is what turns you on, then go out and learn some of the Native Dialects and there are a few, and run around in your loin cloths if that is what you wish to do and romantasize what it would be like to be a Nobil of Old.
I’m Sure David Latimer can give you some History lesson to help on how to achieve maximum effect.

Bill,
I agree with what you say and I do not see anything wrong in requiring those that seek citizenship to speak English and have some basic knowledge of our political system and history.

However I think we do not give potential migrants,and applicants for longer term visas, anywhere near enough information about our culture and society. We should give them a comprehensive list of culural matters they may find different here. Then maybe those that have strongly held views about some aspects of their culture, that are not permitted here, may decide not to come. Which is fair enough.

For about 40 years we basicly have been telling potential migrants that we are a multicultural society, where all cultures can be practised. This is deceitfull because it is not correct. There are many aspects of other cultures that are either unlawfull or not socially acceptable. I maintain that we are multi-racial, and have been since 1788, but I do not accept multicultural. It is a furphy. We are fooling ourseles as well.

The more information and openness we give to prospective migrants, the better off we will be in having migrants intergrate in future.

We can vastly improve our efforts in this regard.

David turning the question around onto me is exactly the wrong thing to do, Is it unchristian? First remove the log from your own eye and then remove the speck from your brothers eye.

I have employed an aborigine in a city... have you?

I have apologised to the aboriginal people on behalf of my family and my fellow Australians ... Have you?

I have had aboriginals as guests to my house... Have you?

I fly the aboriginal flag on my website... Do You?

I have fought for aboriginal rights ... Have you?

And now the piece de resistance "The land issue is probably the most difficult to feel comfortable with." WOW you only feel discomfort ... Thou shalt NOT steal! Surely Christian values allow for a greater statement than yours here.

Now for the old chestnut "In reality, that question is best directed toward those involved at the time, because most of us are as much subsequent "victims of history" ourselves." - David they are dead!

Yes we are all "victims" of history ... but is it Christian to allow an obvious injustice to continue? An obvious theft!

I quite like the idea of you letting some aboriginal families live on your land under the conditions you suggest - but shouldn't the same rule apply to you? Shouldn't you live their way, as your acceptance of their culture, their values, in their land - like you propose for others.

I'm not suggesting we go back to the dark ages... I just would like to see Christians practise what they preach. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you ... Can you honestly say you are arguing this?

I wonder if our Govt came up with a "statement of core values" if we Aussies would sign it? We only need one core value "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and then Mr Howard and Ms. Vanstone could go live on Nauru.

Or don't Christian teachings apply there either? Is selective Christianity a strong & moral position? What would Jesus do?