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The Forum > Article Comments > Integration or disintegration: a test for immigrants > Comments

Integration or disintegration: a test for immigrants : Comments

By Bill Muehlenberg, published 22/9/2006

Simple demands: they should have lived here for four years; they should know a bit about Australian history and values; and they should be able to speak English.

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I agree with Steve M on this - why do we beat this values stuff up along with English etc etc - those provsions have always been in place - what has happened of siignifigancein recent years that brings this folly to the front of peoples minds?
Posted by sneekeepete, Friday, 22 September 2006 12:12:25 PM
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Leigh: "Many on the left want ‘just that’ because it is the aim of the left to destabilize society."

I'll acknowledge that some elements of extreme leftist ideology would lean to the destabilization of society. Just as I believe the elements of the extreme right will do the same.

For you to say that this is the intention of the left however, is just plain ignorant. It can happen as a by product, but find me a leftist who isn't on the extreme fringe who genuinely wants a collapsed, destabilised western society.

With this argument, you dismiss the entire leftist dialogue as being destructive. That makes you no better than those who refuse to believe President Bush is totally evil, and refuse to listen to anything he says at all.

Sure, I think he's made the wrong decisions.
But at the heart of the matter, people undertake these actions because they believe it is the correct course of action.
Bush himself doesn't need more money, so I can't really argue that that is what is driving him.

The point I'm getting at here (aside from the fact that I could just as easily point out the destabilizing influence of the right in inflaming tensions) is that the goal of the left is not to destabilize society, that notion is preposterous, and is an impression you have formed in your mind to reinforce your political leanings.

I'm certainly a lefty, but I wouldn't be as stupid as to actually believe either side of the political fence are driven by a desire to destroy or destabilize society as we know it.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Friday, 22 September 2006 2:20:57 PM
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How 'bout we apply the English test to CityRail train guards? Surely they should be made to converse in English rather than the mysterious language they currently use.
Posted by Sage, Friday, 22 September 2006 2:33:37 PM
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Sage, I think it is a Dutch dialect used by Rail Guards.

For example, as one wit remarked, every time the train departs, the guard announces an homage to the famous Dutch explorer "Stencklier D'Sclussen".
Posted by Mercurius, Friday, 22 September 2006 2:37:49 PM
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By criticising my comment, I assume that Mr Muehlenberg is happy if the government's debate on citizenship does just involve shallow jingoistic nationalism and prejudice about Vegemite, mateship and the Melbourne Cup.

I shouldn't be surprised, but nor should he be surprised that some migrants, and even some of us who were born here, might find that offensive, and yes - even divisive.

Mr Howard and his apologists continue to assert that there is nothing divisive about the "demands" they are making. I can only assume they either don't talk with or just don't listen to the thousands of migrant Australians (yes genuine dinki-di, ridgy-didge Aussies) who find it offensive to suggest that people who don't speak good English are somehow not genuine Australians.

Why is it that migrant Australians have to meet demands to know a bit about Australian history and values when many people born here do not?

The real political correctness is that shown by Mr Muehlenberg, shouting down all dissent as unAustralian and insisting that unpleasant realities - such as prejudice and racism - are not to be named. One can only assume that this makes it easier to pretend these realities do not exist, and thus one can't be accused of pandering to them.

As usual, indigneous Australians do not rate a mention. The base assertion is that if you don't speak English, you're not a real Aussie. It is not indicated where this leaves people who don't speak fluent English but whose connection with this country goes back 100 times longer than that of the spokesmen for white Anglosphere supremacy who now assert the sole right to determine what constitutes 'Australian' values.

The real tragedy with the hollow jingoism being served up is that our nation would really benefit from a genuine debate about what citizenship means and what it should entail. For example, it would be nice to see, alongside the demands on migrants, some suggestion of the obligations on government towards their citzenry. Or would this run contrary to one-way version of mutual obligation that this government is so fond of?
Posted by AndrewBartlett, Friday, 22 September 2006 2:40:53 PM
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I am confused yet again.

There has been an english "test" for people applying for citizenship for a long time.

So why do we have citizens who cannot speak english (I don't know of any), surely their application should have been rejected. Why are the people who approved citizenship not exposed and sacked from their jobs?

Oh I forgot, Its OK if you donate to the Liberal Party Berowra campaign at PO Box 1866 Hornsby Northgate Shopping Centre (Minister Ruddock's electorate office).

Ruddock opens heart, Liberals fill wallet
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/06/05/1054700327441.html

The Howard govt. has politicised immigration for its own political ends, this disgraceful action is the cause of the angst we have today.
Posted by Steve Madden, Friday, 22 September 2006 2:55:22 PM
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