Andrew, shouldn't you be rounding up stray cats on Manus Island?

I've never done that before Sage, so it would be a strange time to start doing it now? (or are you just assuming that anyone who disagrees with our government will end up imprisoned with the refugees in offshore camps)

Thanks for your contribution to the debate Senator, you are a rational voice of reason. Which is much needed, because I feel this debate brings out the worst in us Australians. Even the usual group of Howard apologists seem to bring an extra dose of single mindedness to this issue.

Global warming, Industrial relations, the phony war on terror (better known as oil grab 2000), forget about these important issues, slagging off immigrants is much easier.

I agree with this article. But I really don't see what is so difficult about the question of values. It only becomes difficult when we try to be too prescriptive. In my opinion, and I'd be interested to see if there are any dissenters, we could probably all agree to the following broad propositions:

* There is a separation between Church and State. We accept that legislators will have values informed by their personal beliefs but we would reject any notion of Church or religion deciding what everyone should do just as we would reject the State deciding what everyone should believe.

* There is equality before the law. Although this is difficult in practice because it is clearly easier to "get a fair go" in the courts if you can afford $5000 a day barristers, we would all believe that it's important to strive to have courts that treat people impartially, objectively and according to law, regardless of who they are.

* There is equality in society. Although different people may have very different lives because of their wealth, education, opportunities in life, good fortune, good looks or whatever, in the end everyone in Australia is equal and should be treated equally by others regardless of race, religion or gender.

I don't claim we always live up to those ideals. I do think they are ideals and values that most of us in Australia would agree to.

Regards

Kevin

Andrew Bartlett pops his head in to demonstrate why the Democrats is doomed to irrelevance.

Meanwhile Bill Muehlenburg makes perfect sense, and many of his critics don't.

Australia needs a core culture, which is derived from Anglo culture. Aboriginals make up less than 2% of the population, with many languages meaning the lack of speakers make it impractical and ludicrous to expect Aussies to learn. English is the national language, and has been since it was colonised with little resistance from the original inhabitants.

Now, get over yourselves and speak ENGLISH

Like I said what has happened lately to trigger this stupid discussion -

I lived next door to a lady who had been here twenty years - hardly knew a word of english - her husband on the other hand looked and spoke like Chips Rafferty (you younguns might not know but he wuz a big star - curiously to some he was quintessentially Orstrayen)

We managed - we even liked each other