Here is a nice leftie comment for those who take an aggressive view of the world "Do to others as you would have them do to you." I have not seen much of that view being expressed by those pushing a strong Christian view. I'm probably pretty dumb, but I thought the above quote is an important concept of Christianity.

This quote is inexplicible in relation to what some have been suggesting in relation to Islam "Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you" — Muhammad.

Jehovah Witnesses will say that Catholics are evil and vice versa. Is it any surprise then that so many Christians are deriding Moslems and the flow goes the other way as well.

Runner -

I take issue with your quote - 98 per cen of abortions are simply for convenience.

When I hear someone come up with a statistic, I always stop and think: how could that be accurately gathered?

With convenience being such a subjective term, I can only feel your statistic has been plucked out of thin air. If a daughter has an abortion because her family mired in domestic violence, is that 'convenience?'

If the family is poor - is that simply for 'convenience?'

These issues should always be debated, but don't go throwing exceedingly dodgy pseudo statistics at me. Nothing about this issue is simple, so don't go trying to simplify it.

I completely agree that the Christians who started charities and hospitals would be utterly repulsed with what passes as Bible beieving Christainity. Particularly from the Christian Right.

The Christian Right have become corporate lap dogs aligning themselves with political parties who want to tear-down any form of public heath and destroy any sense of social contentment by financially squeezing the poorer people in society. But heck, if they're poor then they must be atheists then, hey?

In the case of manipulation of democracy by the religious right, I present as my first witness, Tony Abbot.

For the following reasons:

Attempted to withhold medical treatment for women - RU486
Distortion of facts about embryonic stem cell - hysterical claims of human/animal hybrids.
Hypocrisy - how he wants us to behave and how he actually behaves.

For an interesting listen, tune into Media Report on Radio National, Abbott has a go at the media, claiming they deliberately misunderstand that he is acting 'simply' from 'christian' morality and not from any gospel (as if no one else has any morality). If he is indeed sincere in his beliefs, then he really doesn't understand the secular POV and is an intellectual eunich - if he is merely trying to gain sympathy, then he is nothing more than a cold blooded manipulator.

Media Report 24th August, presented at 8.30 AM repeated at 8.00 PM tonight, or download audio link (Abbott if the final speaker in the half hour program):

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/mediareport/default.htm

Listen in, make up your own mind - is he simply misguided or a manipulator?

I love it when "Christians" like Runner assert things like "the entire Bible is God's word" as then I can ask him if he is upholding the biblical injunction to put to death all those who work on Sunday, or the biblical permission to sell children into slavery? Won't hold my breath for an answer though.

Kang

I suggest you read the bible instead of taking a few texts out of context. Having read the bible through many times their is no mention of putting people to death for working on Sundays. It is true that under the old covenant people were stoned for working on the Sabboath (if that is what you are referring to). Just in case you did not know Jesus instituted a new covenant where Christians are called to love their enemies. If it wasn't for God's mercy we would be all dead because we have all broken His perfect laws many times over. Thankfully because of His great love He sent Christ to pay the price for our lawlessness. By the way wasn't it William Willerforce a devout Christian who led the fight against slavery?

Joy you might mean well but you don't need to try everything in order to determine if it is right or wrong. People who do acts that I would hope you find repugnant (such as incest, molestation of children etc)could argue the same case as what you have tried to.

It amazes me that so many on this post seem to imply that Christians or 'right wing Christians' are the cause of every evil on this planet. Simply by believeing that homosexuality along with adultery and lying and stealing is wrong and voicing that view is a terrible crime to many. By defending the most vulnerable (unborn babies) makes us on par with Hitler by the tone of many on this post.

I have not got time to answer every bible text quoted by those who don't believe. Theologians have been debating these for centuries. I take it you have heard most the arguements before. You choose to believe the bible is not true and I choose to believe it is inspired by God and reveals His Son Jesus Christ