runner, "I have not got time to answer every bible text quoted by those who don't believe. Theologians have been debating these for centuries. I take it you have heard most the arguements before.", looks like you've done a runner on that one.

I suspect that almost all "bible believing christains" choose which bits to believe (take literally) and which bits they don't. Those that do take it all literally would probably be ones you would regard as seriously unhinged. The only difference between bible belieing christains and Sells bible belief (see his article on heaven) is the proportion of the bible that you don't take to be literal.

Claims to be a bible believing christain are at best self deception and designed to help you avoid the pain of taking responsibility for what you choose to believe and to give your interpretation more credibility and at worst deliberate dishonesty.

R0bert

Oh right! so Runner has not been out stoning people who work on Sunday because Jesus came with the new Covenant ! so that rules out most of God's word doesn't it, i.e. the Old Testament. Perhaps Runner could say where this leaves homosexuality, what did Jesus say about it exactly ? or does Runner continue to uphold his select parts of the OT where it suits him ? or what ? As an aside, I've always wondered what it meant when Jonathan and David were lying in the field together ? just good friends ? also, Runner fails (as they always do) to answer my query as to why he is obsessed with the death of foetuses while the mass murder of innocent children and adults via bombing of residential suburbs does not arouse the slightest murmur of concern in him and his sex-obsessed coterie. Please explain.

As I said before, we should obey the 10C and the Sermon on the Mount. In modern terms that means no war and no abortion. (Exceptions: War, in cases where injustice is likely to occur if that war does not happen, e.g. fighting Nazi Germany. Fighting Iraq for oil does not count in this category. Abortion: If the mother’s life is actually in danger, but not just because her bank balance might be.)

According to the Bible we are all under the death sentence. God says that even though very rarely people will dare to die for good people, Jesus chose to die for us even though we're very bad (Ro. 5:7-8). That's justice meets mercy in a nutshell.

Is all of the Bible from God? Yes, I believe so. What is the Bible? Quite simply, it is the recording of historical events and poetic prose, through which God teaches His commands and principles to humanity. Does this mean every piece of it is literally true, and literally applicable in the 21C? Not necessarily. Poetic pieces were not literally true. Also, there were some recordings of history we can safely assume God never wanted repeated. Then there are other passages (e.g. Paul telling women not to uncover their heads) that were only culturally relevant but the meaning conveyed through them is equally relevant today (e.g. that passage would mean today, please dress modestly).

Homosexuality... there's probably three passages on it in the Bible yet its mentioned far more than hatred, jealousy, (unrighteous) anger, strife, offence, etc. (mentioned quite a lot in the Bible).

Personally I do not believe God made people to be gay. It would be pretty unjust to make somebody gay and then say "by the way, if u sleep with another man, u must be cut off from your people".

Looking at the Torah, we see it was written 4000 years ago by nomadic freed slaves on a long trip out of Egypt. They didn't have jails. They didn't have hospitals. Let's face it, they didn't have a lot of our 21C medicinal knowledge either. All they knew was God, and He told them to obey Him.

So when God said "don't sleep with an animal, this is an abomination" they said "yes Lord" without learning about microbiology. When God said "don't sleep with a close family member, this is dishonouring" they said "yes Lord" without learning about genetics. When He said "don't sleep with the same sex" they said, "yes Lord."

In the 21C some gays use condoms and live in long term relationships. 4000 years ago, this didn't happen. Think more gay orgies in pagan worship rather than Queer Eye for the Straight Guy. Obviously this would spread disease, stop procreation (no IVF back then for lesbians) and dishonour God (by worshiping pagan religions). He didn't need to go into a lecture about microbiology or sociology. He just said "don't do it, I'm God, listen to Me" and expected them to listen.

I think its quite evident that homosexuality was completely unacceptable in the OT. Does this continue in the NT? Some Christians would argue no, but I think this is more from a misguided sense of compassion than actual Biblical study. The NT makes it quite clear that homosexuality is still a sin, but, as with all other sins, the “death” penalty we were once set to experience has been annulled through the Blood of Christ.

I heard an interesting story today from a person who is a Christian.

The person talked about petitioning a parish to provide some time for an orphan who simply needed time to be spent with him. The Church indicated that they could not do anything for the young fellow. The person stated that at the meeting appropriate prayers were said, and a warm communal feeling was created; but there was incongruence with the final result.

The particular person petitioning the parish does do things that you might expect from a Christian. For example, the person is involved in helping refugees settle into their new community. None of this what can Christianity do for me attitude, but they roll their sleeves up and try to make a difference without having a need to have their exploits made public. The story came from wanting to make a point, the point being that help does not always come from where it could reasonably be expected from.

Currently, I’m an agnostic; however, the Christ that I learnt about as a youngster I seem to recall, served less fortunate people.

To YngNLuvnit, I would genuinely like you to tell me which verses in the New Testament make it clear that homosexuality is a sin. I have searched in vain but maybe have missed something.

I'm so glad you admit that unjust wars which target civilians are a sin, but Runner apparently cannot say why the "Chrisitan" right makes so much noise about foetuses and remain silent about war, arms dealers, militarism, and the rotten military adventures our young men are being dropped into.