Marilyn Shepherd asks: "Did you all see the various news services tonight? The almost total destruction of the lives of 1 million people in Lebanon without cause?" [Post of 23 July 2006 8:02:27 PM]

Marilyn brays for peace but what did she do when the conflict in the Sudan was at its height? Where were the thousands of protesters out on the street then? Or is it only non-Negro lives that count?

I just dug the following words up from a BBC News report in February 2005.

"Nobody knows how many people have died during the two-year conflict in Sudan's western Darfur region.

But the widely quoted United Nations figure of 70,000 is clearly wrong, because it was based on a study that does not include those killed in the violence and just covers a six-month period.

The UN says that more than two million of the estimated six million population have fled their homes, but the organisation is reluctant to suggest how many might have died in total.

Some analysts are estimating that the true death toll could be four or five times higher than the 70,000 figure.

One significant problem in establishing a clear idea is that the Sudanese government and their allies, an Arab militia known as the Janjaweed, are blamed for most of the deaths, so the Khartoum authorities show little interest in encouraging any accurate assessment. Indeed they consistently underplay the scale of the crisis."

I'm not here to condone Israel's offensive in Lebanon which I consider to be a gross over-reaction to the kidnapping of two soldiers but why is Israel held up to a different, much higher standard than those countries - such as Sudan - which number amongst its mortal enemies. And where is the Muslim revulsion against the actions of a self-proclaimed Islamic regime?

2bob

The point you persist in missing, is that the middle east will continue to lurch from crisis to crisis as long as vengeful retaliation remains the modus operandi from all sides.

If it is not Hezbollah, it will be some other cause for retribution – by either ‘side’.

What is desperately needed is a definitive plan for peace. You don’t seem to be able to comprehend this. You demand I answer YOUR questions, you have as yet to answer mine. Which remains: how does continuing hostilities end war and achieve peace?

Quid pro quo.

And BTW, I checked your Canadian links some posts ago – doesn’t change my opinion one jot that Israel’s current invasion of Lebanon will not solve any of the problems in the Middle East. At best it will wipe out Hezbollah (which is unlikely) at the cost of thousands of innocent lives. Will it achieve peace? Of course not. The players in the middle east are trapped in a cycle of attack and counter-attack.

Look at the big picture, 2bob.

Pete,

Fair enough. You have every right to disagree with me on this and anything else. You are one of the ‘older’ hands who can put across a view without raising the ire of others. You probably see the irony of a “Nazi” siding with Israel.

But I am not at ease with your suggestion that a reason for Australia to be taking interest in the region is the thousands of Lebanese Australians in Lebanon.

For Australians of Lebanese background visiting relatives and holidaying, fair enough.

But we are advised that there are about 25,000 Lebanese with Australian passports who live in Lebanon full time. These are Australians of convenience who use their dual citizenship to slip back to Australia when it suits them. They abuse the nonsense of ‘dual citizenship’.

You might disagree with me on this too, but I do not think those schemers should have Australian citizenship, much less be ‘rescued’ from a country they obviously prefer to Australia unless the going gets tough. Many of them would have been granted asylum, in the first place, because they were in ‘peril’ in Lebanon.

I simply will not swallow that.

NEWSREPORT

Lebanese female at the Syrian border, fleeing the bombing says:

[Nancy 15 "I love Hezbollah. Everyone in Lebanon loves them."]

...and there you have it. The root of the problem. Or part of it.

Lets analyse.

"I love Hezbollah".... hmm ok.....

why ?

1/ Social programs ..education and health ? (so far so good)

2/ Religous programs .. "The world and all that is in it belongs to Allah and his apostle. OOOOPSSS....woah... wait a minute...

But..backtracking momentarily. Lets assume that its just point ONE. Social and Education.

Funded by.....who ? and......why ?

ANSWER:

Who ? = IRAN
Why ? = Pathalogical hatred for Israel and a determination to 'obliterate' them from the face of the earth, and replace all of them with Shia Muslim Arabs. PLUS.. grooming them to be their 'proxy' army. (why get your own people killed when you can easily trick another mob into getting killed for you)

So, when this Nancy, 15 yrs old and "innocent civilian" supports Hezbollah, she is in reality a TERRORIST who will be treated as such aNd THAT IS WHY her place was bombed in the Bekaa Valley.

WHY...does the Southern Bekaa valley which is a predominantly MARONITE area get 'hezbollah' signs and authority FORCED on them ? Did they choose it ? Hardly. Hezbollah are Tyrants.

SCOUT you asked a question (to all I presume)

"How does violence and war assist in producing peace".... ?

Simple. the same way carnage and war and destruction and death liberated FRANCE and EUROPE from the freaking Nazi's... or don't you 'get' that ? Were the defeated Nazis 'rejoicing' over this ?
Of course not. Did the Allied victory produce anything but 'lingering hate' in their minds ? No, of course not, they hate our guts.

As I've often said:

1/ THERE IS NO PEACE WHICH IS NOT THE RESULT OF A WAR.
2/ EVERY "PEACE" SOWS THE SEEDS OF THE NEXT WAR.

So, without meaning to shatter your romantic illusions about life and people. That...is how it is.

Five children and the cost of war
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/23/perry.tyre/index.html

for most people, politics is much the same as football- choose a side and back it, without regard to any principle save victory.

reading the posts on this site will convince most of my argument, without further discussion.

i believe the best hope for simple survival of the human race is the widespread attainment of actual democracy in society. if we leave the direction of national policy in the hands of a few individuals who are selected by the level of their arrogance and willingness to lie, cheat, and kill, only two outcomes are likely: ecological disaster, or world war.

unfortunately, democracy can only work when a large percentage of citizens examine the questions of public life with cool heads and informed minds. australia isn't there yet, and aside from (possibly)switzerland and sweden, nor is anyone else.

so democracy might save us, but we can't get there.