No worries, snout.

“reality” will probably have something (gasp) sarcastic to say about me continuing this off-topic thread, but hey, live dangerously, I say ...

The queer corollary of Godwin's Law, as proposed by a blogger called Jody Wheeler (http://www.nakedwriting.com/archives/2002/05/well_thats_one.html) goes, "In any debate on the subject of homosexuality, the probability that discrimination against homosexuals will be justified by invoking a comparison to pedophilia will reach one is directly related to the degree to which the invoker is religiously or socially conservative."

I think in this discussion the dishonour goes to Philo.

The point about Godwin's Law, and Wheeler's corollary, is that the tactic of comparing the subject with the most extreme evil you can conjure up fouls rather than furthers a discussion. It shows that you hold the other participants in the discussion in complete contempt.

After that, there's really no space in which genuine dialogue can occur.

Philo, I repeat, the New Testament of Christ begins with and can only be discovered in the lived life of the man himself. Christ's New Testament (please note the word "New" - indicative of new beginnings) marks the schism between Judaism and Christianity - the latter: rather than vengeful "eye for an eye", offers peace, love, forgiveness, neigbourliness - in short, a fresh and alternative view of the world.

There are two pivotal moments in the story of Christ's life - his refusal to take-up the sword when offered to him by Barabas (the leader of the insurgents) and the subsequent irony of the Jewish people choosing to free Barabas, rather than Jesus. The Jewish people, unable to realise the power of fogiveness and love continue to fight the rest of the world to this day.

Sadly, thus far, no Western country has fully realised the path of Christianity (though there have been periods of love and peaceful cohabitation). Jesus, by the giving of his own life without retaliation (better to die oneself (sacrifice) in the furtherance of peace than it is to take another's life "fighting" for peace (no room for suicide bombers - or bombers of any kind Mr Bush and Mr Blair - in Christianity). This is the revelation of " the life, the truth and the way".

So Martin, the path to joy is not through persecution (very old testament thinking and logically impossible), but through ones own endeavours to live peacefully and harmoniously with others. We have no choice if someone wishes to kill us - but we do have choice about whether we kill or persercute others. When everyone is capable of realising this, the unity of Christ is realised and humanity, in our huge and wonderful variety of manifestations can finally live together in peace (heavenly - don't you think?)

PS - God loves variety (also heavenly) - just take a good look around you - not just one type of flower, tree, bird, fish, planet, galaxy etc... but a multitude of each - and thus with humans too

Philo

Am I to understand that every single time you have had sex it was for procreation only?

How many children do you have?

And does their total equal the number of times you have had sex?

If I remember correctly, Philo, you are now in your 60's - past healthy procreation (incidence of congenital abnormalities increase in aging males as it does in females), therefore I trust you are now celibate.

Just thought of something else, when men masturbate they waste sperm, right? When women masturbate we don't waste anything. Does this mean that only women are allowed to masturbate in accordance with christian lore? As our orgasms have nothing to do with procreation - they're just for fun. Continuing this train of thought, this must mean that lesbian sex is OK as well - no eggs wasted after orgasm. That does seem a bit unfair on gay males however. Is it possible for men to orgasm without ejaculating sperm?

So much to learn, so little time.

Many thanks to R0bert for making me laugh out loud. I think his single sperm has a great dad.

Kevin,
Your appeal to the attitudes of Christ of love and forgivenessis is admirable; however Christ never condoned continuing in sinful practises to live in relationship with God. He condemned the arrogant sinful ways of the Pharisees. He made judgments about those that rejected the principles of God by addressing them as Satan [opponent of God], and this even of his followers with an opposing agenda.

The Zealot's leader believed he was dong God’s will by overthrowing the Romans from the holy city, Peter his disciple upon suggesting Jesus resist going to the cross, Jesus rebukes by calling him satan. Judas while scheming to expose Jesus to the Temple officials in the hope he would fight, Jesus says of his scheme it is satanic [opposed to God].

Forgiveness is only effective as the sin is abandoned. One can hardly be free of the guilt of sin if they choose in it to remain. Remaining in the practise of homosexual acts is a deliberate snub at the Creator and his design. If the Church is to remain true to principles of design they can never accept others agenda to teach same sex intercourse as normal truth. Christ loves the sinner and can change lives and he does. I've several friends former homosexuals whose lives have been changed by Christ.

Kevin said, “ God loves variety - just take a good look around you - not just one type of flower, tree, bird, fish, planet, galaxy etc... but a multitude of each - and thus with humans too.”

In every case of living species; flowers, trees, birds, fish,humans not one exist from fertilization of the same sex gene as the receiving host. There is design, there is diversity, there is a continuance of life because the principles of mating with the opposite sex gene. Being gay or lesbian is death to the species, and you wish to teach children being gay is normal design. It's the way of death to the species. The % incidence of gay or lesbian relationships increase as areas are overpopulated and emotional insecurities in relationships increase.

Scout thanks but the credit should really go to Philo for introducing such a comic spin to the discussion in the first place. I merely played with the solid foundation he laid.

Now we have a post from Philo pointing out that the problem with that wasted genetic material is that the species will die out at the same time as he tells us that homosexuality gets more prevalent during times of overpopulation. If Philo taking maximus's approach and putting forward rediculous propositions to see who takes the bait, if so he got me. If his closing statement is true then that would seem to suggest that homosexuality is a natural mechanism used to limit overpopulation.

If Philo's concern is that homosexuality may lead to the species dying out is of real concern then we must assume that Philo is throwing his support behind causes such as
- Homosexual couples access to IVF, adoption etc.
- Homosexual access to adoption (I wonder if he can touch that one without invoking Wheeler's law again)
- Surragacy
- Homosexual marriage - to provide a more stable home for raising kids from the above items

Going back to the botanical illustration which Philo started with I've been wondering what terrible punishments Philo's god has in store for those bees and insects who dare to put pollen in the wrong place. Philo might have taken special care on that front but I doubt that bees and insects have that as a major priority.
It is my understanding that they spread it around in their travels without a lot of care about getting it on the right bits.

Does this mean that we all have to turn "bi" to please Philo's god? Will we see gangs of fundy christains wondering around bashing bees, picketing bee hives and the like because of the offense that their careless polination habits causes the christian god?

Cheers
R0bert

R0bert

So that's why sex is referred to as 'the birds and the bees'.

What about those dastardly cuckoos which lay their eggs in the nests of other birds?

Hhhmmm, the thick plottens.

Ciao