Kevin,
I suggest you read again what Martin has written; "The Church doesn't get applause for re iterating a five thousand year old unbroken tradition regarding human sexual relations." This is not a statement that the Christian Church has 5,000 years of tradition. It is a statement that a creational principle that has at least 5,000 years of written history of being upheld is reiterated now by the Christian Church.

During my years of work with breeding and pollinating plants never once did we try to reproduce a species by pollinating male gamates with male gamates. Beside the fact that spermotoza if deposited in the waste canal will not reach the spermotoza of the host but is wasted. This practise is a denial of the design of creation and a snub in to the purpose of the designer. How can a person who practise such claim to represent the designer of humanity. They are an affromt to humanity and to the design and purpose of the very nature of the act. We do not put such deluded and disoriented people in charge of teaching the truth about creation or the Creator.

@Philo, I'm glad that you you don't have paedophiles in your own church, the problem is in other churches. I'm sure they would say they have no problems either. They always do. Its always some else's fault.

@W, you cannot deny what happened in Poland and Russia and the violent words from the Vatican coincidentally the released the "violence" message, just before the build up of Catholic driven neo Nazi pogroms. There is no other word but "neo-Nazi" to use. This is how they identify themselves, so your political correctness is from a failed Texan Lawyer. I looked at your reference. The theory is flawed: Texan dribble. Stick to the facts.

Why is there a hate campaign from the Vatican that caused violent pogroms and bashings of queers in Catholic Poland and Russia?

One powerful gay lobby: Marxist? That is a conspiracy theory and it is stupid. There is a "Gay Liberal" group of the Liberal Party, A Gay Business Association, very few are Marxists. None of them agree with each other, just like any Australians.

Meanwhile, the Roman Catholic Church has sided with the conservative communist party in Russia and Poland to enforce the pogroms bash the crap out of the Queers.

Not one Christian in this room has shown any concern about the violence that the church caused in Poland and Russia. You really don't care, not one of you! All you do is write fake conspiracy theories, shove your stupid political correct references: now owned by the Church, and rationalise that you have a long tradition of hating poofs, so why spoil a good tradition?

Hate, fear, violence,corruption, abuse, spite, lies, fraud, greed, sloth, and communist and neo-Nazi collaboration are all in order in YOUR powerful lobby, YOUR campaign of hate.

This topic is about abuse. The Vatican used violent anti-gay language and this abuse caused pogroms of anti-gay riots in Poland and Russia. There is no indication of an apology or any concern for this travesty. There is child abuse in Churches, and the only excuse I get is semantics and technicalities. No apology, just gay-hate

W,

The material of my original post, cited above by you, was some 450+ words, so I selected a break in the text short of the 350 word limit. The issues of public order, health being one that had been raised in other posts, also added some relevance to the selected text.

Between word & posting limits, your (and others) vitriol removed the punch line about whether any stat’s, and the highly contentious ones that I had chosen, would add light to the dilemma faced by a lesbian couple who had decided to artificially create a family and whether their faith community would even be aware or make judgements. I am not aware of any detailed research that has been undertaken or concluded to say that such a family is safe or dangerous, nor am I aware of any restrictions applied to the sacramental participation of such couples, unless wearing a rainbow sash.

The use of parsing, as you have observed, also adds to my intended point of academic research being of limited use in pastoral decision making. (Despite the author selected being scrutinised beyond normal academic limits and still getting published according to saintfletchers self defeating link.) Research is about as reliable as your reference to church participation, which is like saying that because people are not in political parties and do not attend party functions that they are not political. Just like we are forced to vote, we are forced to make decisions and judgements based on our worldview. A mere 70% of us seek to align ourselves with religion. That doesn’t mean that we are correct.

Now of course you may just pass this all off as another ignoble lie, (more “ill will” to use your parlance) but who am I to judge – it seems you clearly have the moral high ground in that regard! (see title of discussion point…)

Finally, I am also in your debt for the revelation of Godwin’s Law. I may quote it, with proper attributions of course, on my new website: University Research Studies that Ulcerate Peoples Identified Dispositions at www.urstupid.con.allof

philo, interesting points raised in

"During my years of work with breeding and pollinating plants never once did we try to reproduce a species by pollinating male gamates with male gamates. Beside the fact that spermotoza if deposited in the waste canal will not reach the spermotoza of the host but is wasted. This practise is a denial of the design of creation and a snub in to the purpose of the designer. How can a person who practise such claim to represent the designer of humanity. They are an affromt to humanity and to the design and purpose of the very nature of the act. We do not put such deluded and disoriented people in charge of teaching the truth about creation or the Creator. "

A few observations
- Normally only the catholic church pushes the line that sperm must have a fighting chance. Most of the rest of the church accepts contraception which clearly wastes sperm whenever it is successfull. Catholics have "celebate" teachers - it seems fair to assume that most of their sperm is wasted.
- Most christains believe that Jesus remained single and likewise most believe that he had no children - again it would appear that all his sperm was wasted (if he was fully man then he should have been producing something like the normal amounts).
- Male humans produce a lot of sperm over a lifetime, very few produce more than a dozen or so children so by design the process is wasteful of sperm.
- The christain emphasis on monogamy and one man/one woman sexual relationships means that most of the time 100% of a mans sperm will be wasted - once his partner is pregnant then no more conception until thats finished and no one else he can use it more productively with.

So if male homosexual wastage of sperm is such an issue then you might like to take it up with the founder of your faith and his dad (the claimed designer of the human body). If not then stop clutching at straws.

R0bert

Robert, impressive points you’re making, and hilarious too (in a good way). I wouldn’t expect a strong come-back or even a logical reply from philo though.

Neither is there a response to my post when I said to Fdixit (17th July post):
“Australian families have an average of 2.1 children. In many families one of the partners have been sterilized when they have finished their families; others are using contraception; some couples are infertile; some have gone through menopause; some decide not to have children at all; some are homosexual couples. Sexual activity for all these people is condemned?
People ought to stop having sex as soon as their families are complete?”

This is as far as Philo and Fdixit can/will take it. Beyond the whole clichéd, standard lecture about reproduction and wasting sperm, they’re either lost for words or they might go into more detail about reproduction.
*yawns in anticipation*

Celivia, the statistical difference between gay and hetero sperm wastage are kind of staggering.

http://www.sirinet.net/~jgjohnso/reproduction.html suggests that 300 to 400 million sperm are involved per ejaculation which puts the total number produced during a lifetime into a figure of many billions (lets say 1000 billion for simplicity but that is probably a massive understatement).

I've fathered one child and don't expect to father any more so I will conceivably waste 999,999,999,999 sperm and productively use 1 one during my life time. Compare that to the lifetime gay who wastes that one sperm. What a terrible crime on their part - if Philo did not appear to be serious it would be very funny.

R0bert