Scout, “Why do the religious say anything (even if it makes them look like complete idiots) in order to bolster their own beliefs and prejudices? The seriously religious are so scared of anything that doesn't fit their tiny little world view. “

Try the definition for, paranoid pathological psychopath, for your answer. You'll be amazed at the similarities, it's very prevalent in the homophobic psychotic. It must be frightening to be so scared of such a little difference, to have to desire the demise of others. Still that's monotheism at its best, isn't it.

http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm

http://www.swin.edu.au/victims/resources/assessment/personality/psychopathy_checklist.html

These sites will give all the evolved a true insight into the mental standing of those too inadequate to co exist with reality, monotheists.

Philo, you don't appear to understand the difference between "know to be true" and [in the absence of any reliable verification] "believe to be true".

You don't know if there is a god [or gods], you simply believe it. In the event that your belief turns out to be true, then you still don't know what he/she/it thinks about anything, you simply believe that you do.

That's fine by me. As you probably already realise, I don't criticise anyone's spiritual beliefs, but neither do I appreciate them being presented to me as definite facts. And I'm absolutely horrified if anyone is unfairly discriminated against on the basis of someone's unsubstantiated beliefs.

You selectively quote the Bible and expect us all to accept that as proof. No, Philo, after thousands of years of word-of-mouth around a camp fire, translations, re-translations, opinions, revised opinions and the expression of various people's prejudices and political/racial/religious bias, there are an assortment of interesting stories, but no proof.

"Are, but it's the word of God,so it must be true", you may say. But who says it's the word of God? I don't want to appear hard on you, but those with vested interests say so and they have no proof.

You obviously believe that you have THE ANSWER and probably become frustrated with those who don't agree with you. But just try to understand that, just as you do not have to agree with others, those same others do not have to agree with you.

I accept human homosexuality as occuring naturally and, as long as its physical expression is between consenting adults, then that's fine by me. You may think differently, Philo, but you have no proof, just unsubstantiated belief.

Snout says: "Rancitas, ... don’t infer design from science. If you don’t like anal sex, or if you want to point out health risks associated with the practice, fine. But don’t present personal feelings as “scientific fact”. It’s pretty hard to argue against so-called “intelligent design” or other religiously based corruptions of science if you do."

Snout I base this particular "personnal feeling[s]" on scientific fact. The anus is part of the digestive tract. All biology books indicate this. A women's vagina is designed for penetration and pleasure. It becomes moist on arousal and so on. The anus is a convenient receptor that is not designed for penetration but expulsion of undigested food. My point is that I don't make my assessment on religious, politiccal or any other subjective or influenced grounds. It is a dispassionate scientific-based opinion.

I never mentioned health risks. The quote I presented, re: homosexual males having some characteristics found in the female brains, noted that the discoveries were made on homosexuals who had succumbed to Aids. I pointed out to Coach that this may have affected the autopsy results in relation to female-sized hypothalmus in homosexual males.

FYI . Gay men have more frontal lob activity that is much like females too.

Tell me something. Is there any "repressed" hetreosexuals in the homosexual population?

My opinion on homosexuals was formed long ago. It has a bit to do to do with science, gay victimhood, religion, nothing to do with politics and a lot to do with my belief that the value of the individaul human and their right to choice is mostly higher than all else. It so happens that this is a Christian concept.

If you, Snout, don't like vaginal penetration, don't infer from your particular preferences that others views aren't based on dispassionate opinion. It’s hard to argue for evolution or science-based opinion if you do. In my opinion the butthole has evolved to allow humans to take a dump. But good luck and God bless those who choose to use it to give pleasure to their partner.

Philo, I do have respect for theists- I don’t have problems with religious people generally. I accept that people have different convictions and beliefs, religions and principles.
People should have mutual respect for each other’s choices as long as the things they choose are not harming others.
What I mainly do have problems with is the fact that some groups/churches use offensive or insulting language towards another group of people. That’s why I do like, as I mentioned, the fact that Father Pendergast is bringing this issue to the surface.
You, however, place everybody who does not agree with your church in a box: the atheists, the gays and lesbians, etc are all bad. Can’t you just open your mind a little and accept that not all people can agree on the same principles and that people are individuals with different needs?

You have placed pedophilia and homosexuality in the same box a few times now. I think it is highly insulting to homosexuals to be crammed in the same box as criminals/child abusers.
Homosexual relationships are between mature adults and are always consensual. Pedophilia is child sexual abuse- under aged and non consensual.
Pedophilia is NEVER OK, Philo, whether people are heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, whether they live in aboriginal communities, other communities or are authorities or clergymen hidden away in churches where they are protected.
BTW does the catholic church still offer sanctuary for child abusers? They would still go to heaven (if there was one) as long as they confess their sins, right?

Bosk, “Philo your reply is sick. I will not lower myself arguing against it.”
You are very wise. I, however, couldn’t resist ;) - one more last time!

Thanks for those interesting links, w and Alchemist.

philo, if the christain churches recognised that they are social clubs with a common interest in a specific mythology then I would have no problems with what internal membership rules you have.

The continued choice by christains and churches to act as though they were more than that places your internal policies in the public domain.

: deliberate attempts to convince people that your faith matters and that punishment awaits those who don't share that faith. Most groups would be shutdown and arrested if they use the kind of threats the churches use to seek and keep members - an eternity of burning in hell must be pretty scary for those who believe the threat.
: massive use of public funds to promote your religion through christain schools - these funds are used in a discriminatory manner. The following statement from a couple of local schools might give the idea

"As Iona is a Catholic College owned and conducted by the Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate, boys are given preference into the College in the following order:

1. Boys who have been baptised into the Catholic Faith and are
attending a Catholic School
2. Boys who have been baptised into the Catholic Faith and are
attending a State School
3. Siblings of Current/Past families (non-Catholic)
4. Sons of Old Boys (non-Catholic)
5. All other applicants " http://www.iona.qld.edu.au/deliver/content.asp?orgid=1&suborgid=1&ssid=27&pid=796&ppid=0

and

"Our mission is to foster a Christ-centred school community which, through the co-operation of staff, students and their families, provides for students from across the community spectrum, a quality education which values respect for the individual, a commitment to excellence in all endeavours and the desire to develop one's God-given abilities." http://www.redlands.qld.edu.au/ & "All teaching staff are practising Christians" http://www.redlands.qld.edu.au/Admin/enrolment.htm

: ongoing christain advocacy to force "christain" morality on those who don't share your faith, any OLO reader will be familiar with that one.

While christains fail to keep your intollerance inhouse amongst consenting adults then your actions and choices are a matter of public concern and open to public discussion.

R0bert

BOSK,

you are correct to observe that hospitality was (and remains?) an important element and perhaps a graver sin in Mid-east culture - what did Jesus say – “Most certainly I tell you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city” - but, Lot’s duty was hampered not by people ignoring God’s message (pretty high in the order of things), or wanting to rob the Angels, or spit on them or give them a flogging, but to gay rape them. No wonder even the Lord was hearing the cries! That’s some pretty severe inhospitality andwas treated as such. I doubt that even ClubMed provides such a friendly welcome & ‘service’ in these ‘enlightened’ times. http://www.thisistravel.co.uk/travel/news/-Pink-pound-prospersinUK-article.html?in_article_id=46060

Was the Sodom situation (complete abandonment of sexual mores) the absolute base level of civilization and did it deserve the punishment on that basis of rejecting God’s message or was it because it didn’t win the Tidy Town Friendliness Award?

alchemist

Fantastic list of OLO participant characteristics: my favourites

- displays a compulsive need to criticise whilst simultaneously refusing to value, praise and acknowledge others, their achievements, or their existence

- is self-opinionated and displays arrogance, audacity, a superior sense of entitlement and sense of invulnerability and untouchabilit

I now OUT myself as Charles James Philip, By the Grace of God, King England and France, Naples, Jerusalem, Ireland, Defender of the Faith, Prince of Spain, Sicily, Archduke of Austria, Duke of Milan, Burgundy and Brabant, Count of Hapsburg, Flanders and Tyroll

did I mention another favourite

- often fraudulently claims qualifications, experience, titles, entitlements or affiliations which are ambiguous, misleading, or bogus

Celivia,

You say Pedophilia is NEVER OK, -true - but, until recently the law said homosexuality wasn’t OK, illegitimate children were to be avoided, divorce was prohibited or difficult to obtain etc.. Slippery slope? I not equating any of these activities, merely that the public perception can change, but, is it for the better, particularly for children?

RObert

keep members – compulsory unionism ?

public funds– election payments per vote?