Boaz David, advocate of ethnically cleansing Gaza to solve Israel's inconvenient Palestine 'problem', launches yet another incoherent rant. One wonders whether, had he been a subject of Hitler in the 30's, he'd have advocated the ethnic cleansing of Jews to solve Germany's Jewish 'problem'. As a believer in 'might is right' presumably he has no problem with the Nazi genocide either.
sganot: I take it that if you'd had a problem with BD's ethnic cleansing advocacy, you'd have spoken up by now. On to your propaganda pearls: a) "Palestinian war crimes"? By forcing itself on the Palestinians, the Zionist movement and its creation, the state of Israel, bears the greater share of responsibility for violence in Palestine in exactly the same way as the European invasion of Australia bore the greater share of responsibility for frontier violence here. Yes the world "sits back and watches" the Palestinians being squeezed, but the US stuffs Israel's pockets with billions to enable it.
b)The UN reports the ratio of homemade Qassams into Israel, as opposed to far more destructive Israeli ordinance into Gaza as 1:10. Don't pretend that the current conflict is caused by Palestinian pinpricks.
c)UN "criticism"? The US veto is used way out of proportion to shield its little mate from meaningful action by the UN and Israel's/your willingness to accept criticism is just about zero, with screams of anti-Semitism reserved for anyone with the temerity to do so.
2 bob: In case you haven't noticed, something's been going around for yonks called the Israel/Palestine conflict. Haven't those tanks on the telly going BOOM BOOM registered yet? It's a matter of resistance, sometimes (lightly) armed, versus an occupying power armed to the teeth. In other words, a WAR. In which soldiers/resistence fighters may be killed, wounded or captured. But not kidnapped.

Strewth,

Someone asked how Israel is different from Nazi Germany. I brought up one crucial difference, which makes his comparison appalling. I never said Israel is perfect or beyond criticism.

Your information about property rights in Israel is incorrect. What is your source for this lie, or did you just make it up? Does that mean there is perfect equality in Israel? No, there is much room for improvement. BTW, do you know how much land Jews can cultivate, develop, and settle in Palestinian-ruled areas? None. And the penalty for a Palestinian selling land to a Jew is death.

About the "ever-shrinking territories": In 2000, Israel suggested creation of a Palestinian state in around 97% of the territories, with its capital in Jerusalem. The Palestinians responded with war. Their leadership remains more interested in destroying Israel than in building their state.

You say "Jerusalem is not recognised as Israel's capital by the rest of the world." And yet, it is the capital. Whether it is Israel's capital or not is a functional question, and does not depend on the recognition of others. Most countries put their embassies in the Tel Aviv area; it just means the ambassadors have to drive farther when they present their credentials at the President's Residence, which of course is in Jerusalem. Every reputable political scientist will tell you that, while Jerusalem's final status is negotiable, it is Israel's capital.

"WB settlers 'native to this land'?"

Most were born in Israel/Palestine, just like most Palestinian residents in this land.

"I take it that if you'd had a problem with BD's ethnic cleansing advocacy, you'd have spoken up by now."

Don't. I don't support ethnic cleansing, but I don't play those games. Shall I assume you agree with everything you haven't denounced?

" ‘Palestinian war crimes’? … the state of Israel, bears the greater share of responsibility for violence…”

We disagree about relative responsibility, and your statement is a non sequitor to the issue of war crimes. Each side is responsible for its own crimes regardless of who bears the greater share of responsibility for the conflict.

sgranot:
1)My information about property rights is from Uri Davis' 'Apartheid Israel'. The main body of Israeli law (Absentees' Property Law, Law of return, Development Authority Law, WZO-JA for the Land of Israel Law, JNF Law, Land Acquisition Law etc, etc), by incorporating the apartheid distinction between Jew & non-Jew contained in the constitutions of the World Zionist Organization, the Jewish Agency and the Jewish National Fund, denies 93% of Israeli territory to non-Jews, Palestinian citizens of Israel and of course the Palestinian refugees. "Do you know how much land Jews can...settle in Palestinian-ruled areas? None." Is this why approx 40% of the West Bank is now under settler/army control? And "Palestinian-ruled"? Under occupation!?
2)Barak's 'generous' offer to Arafat? What a sham. Let's explore: WB & Gaza = 22% of Palestine. With Oslo the Palestinians conceded 78% of Palestine to Israel. Now that's a bloody generous offer! Not good enough for Barak, though. He wanted 69 Israeli settlements as well (10%) and territories under "temporary Israeli control" (10%), leaving the rest, split up by settlement blocs, bypass roads and roadblocks, to the Palestinians. Oh, and let's not forget Israeli control of borders. Spare us more of your propaganda.
3)"Jerusalem's final status is negotiable"? "We will keep Jerusalem united." Olmert, Haaretz, 8/2/06 Make up your mind.
4) Will you stop the games - Israeli settlers are as native to the occupied Palestinian territories as you are to Mars.
5) You'd have denounced Nazi proposals to ethnically cleanse Germany of its Jewish citizens in the 30's, no? BD is calling for the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Gaza. What, in the name of morality and consistency, are you waiting for?
6) In America's West Bank, Indians killed European settlers who encroached on their lands. Tell me they were war crimes committed by terrorists.

David

Is that the Old Testament you are forcing down others throats?

Do I need to quote you own words again?

While there is no doubt that there are atrocities committed from both sides of the Gaza strip, the one fact that remains is that Palestinians were forced off their land by Zionists under the guise of religion.

One has to ask why Israel receives so much support from such a right wing, christian evangelistic government as the USA?

Apart from materialistic concerns - maintaining its interests in the Middle East for the control of oil deposits, the other overriding interest is the belief in the second coming of christ. Comments such as our own evangelistic zealot Boaz' "ethnic cleansing" indicate the truth of this worrying belief.

Christian fundamentalists are ardent advocates of free-market capitalism, having played a key role in America's war against communism during the Cold War. Christ, capitalism and American supremacy go together.

Some key tenants following from biblical inerrancy and held by the vast majority of Christian fundamentalists include:

*belief in the Bible as an accurate history (e.g. the story of Noah's Ark and the Flood is historic fact),

*rejection of modern biblical scholarship, that is, scholarship that including studies--drawing from textual criticism to archeology--concerning the Bible's authorship,

*belief in the future bodily return of Jesus Christ ("the Second Coming") and the future bodily resurrection from the dead of all Christians,

*refusal to recognize the reality of biological evolution and its evidences in favor of a form of biblical creationism,

*adherence to the principle of the subordination of wife to husband and women to men,

*belief in a literal Satan, hell, demons, heaven, and angels,

and

*anticipation of a future "End Times" --though various schools of biblical interpretation concerning End Times exist in fundamentalist Christianity.

What is intriguing is the Zionists acceptance of this pro-christian assistance, for these christian extremists believe that unless Jews accept christ in the second coming they will perish along with muslims and all other non-believers.

While religion rules the agenda for war between Palsetine and Israel, peace will never be achieved.

SOLUTION TO MIDDLE EAST/PALESTINE/ISRAEL.

Yes.. its a bold statement :) but someone has to make it.

1/ ARGUMENT FROM HISTORY.

a) 587 BC, Babylonians invade Israel, disperse Jews among the Babylonian Empire.

OUTCOME Jews settle, make new homes, new lives, get on with their lives. (No more 'Jewish' problem for Babylonians)

b) 539BC Persian King Cyrus reverses the Babylonian policy and allows ethnic diaspora's to return to homelands. (required a loyalty oath to Persia, -impossible for serious Jews)

c)OUTCOME 515 BC Jews rebuilt Temple and Walls of Jerusalem. (Immediate conflict with the 'Palestinians' of the day who seek to undermine this-Sanballat and Tobiah -Refer_Books of Ezra&Nehemiah)

d) 332 BC Alexanda the Great defeats Persia. Hellenization of Israel begins.

e) 170 BC Jewish Maccabean revolutions.

f) 63 BC Romans under Pompey take over Israel. Romanization begins.

g) AD 66-70: Jewish revolt, war with Romans, destruction of Jerusalem and Second Temple

AD 73: Masada falls

AD 130-2: Hadrian outlaws circumcision and plans to rebuild Jerusalem as a pagan city

AD 132-135. Bar Kochba rebellion. Jews crushed by Romans, sold into slavery, and driven into exile (the Diaspora). Jerusalem is rebuilt as Aelia Capitolina.

OUTCOME For the Romans, this....was the END of the 'Jewish' Problem and was in effect until the late 18th century when Zionism revived. Thats err.. close to 1900 years.

CONCLUSION When the religious and ethnic attributes of a people (be they Jewish or Arab or Chechyn or Kosovo_Albanians or anyone) are such that they will ALways rebell against that which goes against their Faith, the only workable solution is 'exile and dispersal'.

Arab (Muslim) Oil Money (kazillions of it) should be used to facilitate exile,dispersal and absorption of Palestinian Muslims. Provide land, housing and employment.
Christian and Druze Arabs and Israelis occupy and include Gaza and West bank in Greater (peaceful_prosperous) Israel.

PROBLEM SOLVED.

P.S. Irish fled from a potato famine, leaving their land, to Australia and USA, it was not the end of their world.