maracas

The kind of thing that removes goodwill of so many Australians about the plight of East Timorese is the position you're taking.

Your position appears to be:

- there is nothing good about Australia's key contribution in helping the East Timorese since 1999.

- Portugal represents goodness and its contribution is therefore recognised.

- East Timor is an opportunity for a socialist experiment, eg. bring on the Cuban doctors.

- media reports and anything else that runs contrary to the position that Alkatiri can do no wrong are lies, damn lies.

- don't mention how much worse things were under the Indonesians, only criticise the "neocolonialist" of the moment.

- the US (presumably the evil bastion of capitalism) is pulling the strings.

- Australia has no initiative or legitimate national interests.

I try and see your side. Some of your observations seem accurate but by not acknowledging Australia's positive contribution (now or in the past) you weaken your arguments and turn off a potentially sympathetic audience.

That said I appreciate that you are committed to something important.

Pete
http://spyingbadthings.blogspot.com

Yeap, East Timor is clearly a failed state. It couldn't even control its capital Dili and needs thousands of foreign troops to (unsuccessfully) maintain law and order. Anybody that denies the failed state of East Timor is delusional. East Timor is clearly better-off under Indonesia.

Under 400 years of Portuguese rule, there were but 50kms of roads ever built, all of them in Dili. There were only ONE highschool in the whole half-island, practically NO healthcare, and extremely high levels of illiteracy. The Portuguese didn't even bother converting East Timor into Christianity, with 2/3 of the population remaining animist in 1975.

Under Indonesia, the entire East Timor is covered by well-maintained road network, schools were built in every village bringing literacy up dramatically to over 70% in very short time. Indonesian healthcare allows a population boom that meant East Timorese population doubled from 500,000 in 1970 to nearly one million by 1999. Our subsidies and floor-pricing system for East Timorese agricultural products ensures healthy economic growth and East Timorese experienced increasing prosperity.

Our anti-communist campaign meant Indonesia forced nearly all East Timorese to join Catholic Church. Our president Suharto built the second-largest Jesus statue in the world (Christo Rei) in Dili in 1995, while he also built the largest cathedral in SE Asia, the Cathedral of Immaculate Conception, in 1987.

After independence, every quality-of-life indicator has gone down the drains. Lack of maintenance meant Indonesian-built road network shrunk rapidly each year, and most parts of the country can now only be accessed on the back of a pony.

Collapse of education system meant illiteracy now returns to 60% and growing. Health system all but collapsed with lowest life expectantcy and highest infant mortality in Asia. The economic system all but collapsed, with East Timor being the poorest "country" in earth. Focus on coffee industry has all but failed thanks to persistently low world coffee price, while it is approximated that this year's violence shrunk East Timorese GDP by nearly 50%, further strengthening East Timorese position as poorest people in the world.

So yeap, ET-is-a-failed-state-and-there-is-simply-no-hope-for-the-future. They-were-fooled-by-foreign-propaganda-promising-nirvana-and-simply-made-the-wrong-choice-back-in-1999.

Proud to be Indonesian

Its rare that an Indonesian goes into bat over East Timor these days.

While I’m critical of the performance of leftwing dominated Fretilin and of maracas’ attitude, the history of the Indonesian occupation between 1975 and 1999 is nothing to boast about. Many of the current economic and infrastructure problems you point to are part of “Indonesia’s parting gift to East Timor” in 1999.

Maracas will have no love of the source of the following assessment, but, the information is checked by those without a humanitarian axe to grind:

“[East Timor] was incorporated into Indonesia in July 1976 as the province of East Timor. An unsuccessful campaign of pacification followed over the next two decades, during which an estimated 100,000 to 250,000 individuals lost their lives.

On 30 August 1999, in a UN-supervised popular referendum, an overwhelming majority of the people of East Timor voted for independence from Indonesia. Between the referendum and the arrival of a multinational peacekeeping force in late September 1999, anti-independence Timorese militias - organized and supported by the Indonesian military - commenced a large-scale, scorched-earth campaign of retribution.

The militias killed approximately 1,400 Timorese and forcibly pushed 300,000 people into West Timor as refugees.

The majority of the country's infrastructure, including homes, irrigation systems, water supply systems, and schools, and nearly 100% of the country's electrical grid were destroyed.

On 20 September 1999 the Australian-led peacekeeping troops of the International Force for East Timor (INTERFET) deployed to the country and brought the violence to an end.”

From the CIA World Fact Book, 2006 http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/tt.html

If you have a problem with the accuracy of this source consider SBY’s past in America and the US' increasingly close relations with Indonesia. The US would not want to put Indonesia offside. The CIA assessment appears fair (in this case).

Pete
http://spyingbadthings.blogspot.com

Did anyone else see the Dateline (I think) show about Cuba's health system? They are doing very very well (lower child mortality than the United States) and train (for free) prospective doctors from around the developing world. Accepting 250 Cuban doctors, who are used to working in 'developing' conditions, seems like a highly sensible thing for Timor Leste to do, and stuff the perceptions.

Afterall, Australia is hardly likely to have an extra 250 doctors available for them to use to build up the health system - we don't have enough for ourselves.

Yes, Indonesians are happy because we are now free from East Timor problem. If they choose to continue to kill each other, that's their choice and has nothing to do with Indonesia.
The good thing is that now our govt closed the land border between East Timor and West Timor, so that East Timorese cannot cross the border as they wish. Not like in 1975 and 1999, where hundreds of thousands of East Timorese burdened Wes Timor province.

"The militias killed approximately 1,400 Timorese and forcibly pushed 300,000 people into West Timor as refugees."

It's amazing to see how people perceive lies as if it is truth! And continue to do so.
http://www.ourcivilisation.com/decline/example/masskill.htm

I do feel for ordinary East Timorese.
SBY made a good decision to close the land border, but Xanana asked him to reopen the border for trafficking goods, and SBY agree. Many of you do not realize that East Timorese still depend so much on Indonesian goods, which are imported through Indonesia West Timor land border. Almost everything, from cigarette, soap, tooth paste, rice, sugar, fuel, clothes, sandals, shoes, etc, are imported from Indonesia. And many shops in East Timor are run by Indonesians. But now many are closed, or maybe even looted. So it become more difficult for East Timorese to buy things.

I guess it's only Indonesians who were not surprise at all with the recent violence in East Timor.
They killed each other in 1975 (and also long before that),
they killed each other in 1999, (you put the blame on Indonesia, but it's East Timorese who killed each other).
they kill each other now, and I am sure they will continue to do so.
Mark my word. Don't be surprise.

Thank god it's no longer our problem. We are free now.
How sweet the freedom is. Freedom from the burden that is East Timor, thanks to Habibie.

@Plantagenet:

Suffice to say no Indonesian put any value into these inaccurate "assessments", and neither do most of the world's population since 165 countries just elected Indonesia into the UN Human Rights Council. The reason is simple: these allegations bear no relation whatsoever to the truth. Many Indonesians know this because they've worked or know someone who've worked in East Timor to improve ET's lot.

The fact is, East Timorese population actually DOUBLES from 500,000 (Portuguese census 1974) to one million (UN census 2000) during Indonesian rule thanks to our healthcare service, making rubbish of any claims of "genocide". It is simply logically impossible for the population to be "reduced by one-third" while the clear fact is the population actually doubles.

As for the 1999 events, it is clear the perpetrator of the destruction then are the East Timorese themselves. As we can see today, East Timorese main hobby is BBQ-ing their own cities and towns to ashes. Last week, they managed to burn down 60% of Dili within a few days under the nose of Australian soldiers. Within short time, you now have 200,000 people forced to become refugees. The situation in 1999 is very similar like today, with Indonesian soldiers unwilling to take tough action to stop the violence (like the situation of Australian soldiers today) to avoid charges of "human rights violations". Only after a few weeks of joint Indonesian-Australian patrols, eventually the riots burn itself out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/purnomor/purnomor/UT0007469.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/purnomor/purnomor/UT0007414.jpg
PICS OF INDONESIAN SOLDIERS PATROLLING TOGETHER WITH AUSTRALIAN SOLDIERS

Additionally, no roads or other infrastructure was destroyed in 1999. The collapse of East Timorese economy, health, and education systems cannot be blamed on Indonesia. As we see now, East Timorese has come to realise this fact and have start blaming those responsible for the collapse of their living standards: THEIR OWN GOVT.

It is clear, Indonesians can be proud of their benevolent attempt to improve the lots of the East Timorese, and rightly so.

@Laurie:

It-is-very-interesting-that-four-Cuban-doctors-working-in-East-Timor-have-crossed-the-border-illegally-to-Indonesia. Appearantly-these-Cubans-want-to-seek-asylum-to-USA, just-like-what-millions-of-Cubans-tried-to-do-each-year. Seems-like-living-in-USA-is-every-Cubans'-ultimate-dream.