I know for sure that Wendy is just being mischievous but Dee is a different matter. Dee, when nearly 5,000 Afghans escaped the Taliban and came to Australia we locked them up like criminals.

145 nations that have signed the refugee convention guaranteed that people who are refugees are allowed to cross borders to seek protection. If you can't get birth certificates, are not considered human beings just because you are a woman, cannot legally cross borders because you cannot get passports or visas what would you do? Would you stay and be murdered?

I have never said that Australia is responsible for the murder of 6 million Jews - I said we sent them back. Even after the war we excluded a good many Jewish refugees and gave refuge to the nazis who murdered them. Why? Because they were white.

I think you ignorant women need to do some genuine reading instead of simply being absurd.

Dee, you tell me what crime there is in guarding a tank. Come on. Explain how guarding a tank is a crime no matter who it is for.

If that is a crime the ADF who just murdered a guard in Iraq should be charged with murder. There are about 1,000 Australian mercenaries in Iraq - are they criminals? Making money galore off the misery of the poor Iraqi people.

This debate has generated into the ridiculous - go and do some homework.

‘Dee is a different matter’ - Why?

‘I .. never said ... Australia is responsible for the murder of 6 million Jews’ – that is exactly what you said.

“They said piss off and 6 million people were slaughtered”

This clearly states that six million Jews were slaughtered because Australia told them to ‘piss off’. If that's not what you meant, perhaps you should rewrite. Accuracy is more important than dramatics.

I already said that I wouldn't expect asylum seekers to produce government documents but if these people have lived their whole lives in the country, why are they unable to produce a single scrap of proof?

“Because they were white” - Don’t be absurd. The Nazis had very efficient escape organizations; there are escaped Nazis on every continent. In fact, thousands of Nazis took refuge in the Middle East – a good reason why Islamic fanatics are so similar to the original Nazis. Virulent hatred of Jews is endemic in Islamic countries and is another good reason to be wary of a large influx of Muslim immigrants and ‘refugees’.

‘Explain how guarding a tank is a crime no matter who it is for’

– you don’t appear to know anything about warfare.

Scenario WWII: Australian patrol comes across an Australian guarding a Japanese tank on the orders of his Japanese masters. The patrol is correct in regarding this man as a traitor fighting on the side of the enemy.

‘..the ADF who just murdered a guard in Iraq should be charged with murder’

US and Australian forces are dealing with primitives who obey no rules and laugh at those who do – they get a free pass to torture and behead helpless captives, but God forbid we should ignore the Geneva Convention.

“Ignorant” – I could say that of you. You have obviously never seen the chaos in Europe and the UK created by Muslim immigrants/refugees. I have seen it up close. If you ever see it, perhaps we can talk again, although I suspect there is no proof on earth that could change your mind.

Marilyn says:
"When nearly 5,000 Afghans escaped the Taliban and came to Australia we locked them up like criminals"

I put it to you Marilyn that most "refugees" who come to Australia are economic “refugees”.They are seeking to improve their position in the pecking order,rather than escape persecution.

They have been very selective in choosing to come to Aust.
If they were from Afghanistan they would have by-passed some 8-9 other countries –some of them “moderate” Islamic nations.

Further in most cases they stayed for long periods in third countries, while waiting for the ideal time to make their move.

And from what I have seen, they are not so much running from the Taliban as bringing Taliban-like values with them.

Its True Dee I love taking the micky out of M Just for fun. She always bites and its a constant source of enertainment for me I am afraid. I have spoken to her and she has seen a few things that have clearly upset her and she forgets how nice people are when they want something. I am really trying to divert her to helping with live exports because I tell you what if Howard and Vaile Downer had M on their backs they would Ban it tomorrow.[grin] When Australia finally is attacked I just want enough time to stand there and say to the everyday housewife mother and business man meet the people you have been sending LIVE animals to.! I call it cow carma. Until people learn to respect all creatures they wont care about other people either. I just dont see where people get off saying WE are more important. Surley we share this earth and we are just another living creature along with the rest of them. Speaking of creatures I am with you on the Hick issue and M has lost me totally this time.M if u really want to get Hicks off go for mental health and get him put in a hospital for the crazy where he belongs.
If he was not insaine before he will be now after being in that place. See how nice I am M free legal advise even for Hick the Dick Keep up the good work Dee.

Wendy – the beef I have with Marilyn is that she refuses to respond to reasonable questions. ‘We’ have killed 100,000 Iraqis, ‘we lock up refugees’ etc etc. No sources or proof provided. She has no alternative plan to detention and refuses to tell us why would be refugees travelled through several Muslim countries to reach Australia – a country with a completely different way of life, different language, vastly different religion, customs and mores. Why? It couldn’t be because Australia has a generous (read ‘mug’) welfare system? Seeking a better way of life is fine, but it makes you an economic refugee and Australia has absolutely no obligation to accept people looking for better pickings.

Re the two cases that taxpayers (via the government) are paying through the nose for - both these people lied for reasons best known to themselves - one claimed to be German - yet according to Marilyn and co., thats our fault too. Could be, if you dont want to end up in a detention centre, dont pretend to be a foreigner who cant speak English.

The thing that peeves me most of all, is that in the eyes of Marilyn, ’we’ are always wrong. However, I will own up to 'sometimes'.

I do agree about live exports.

The legal position of David Hicks is indeed an interesting question. It was only 140 years ago that there was no distinctions between captued enemy soldiers and criminals. Prussia and the USA were the first countries in the world to sign an agreement recognising each others soldiers as not being criminals, in the event that they ever went to war.

Since then, all the countries of the civilised world have followed suite. But the status of ununiformed combatants has never been defined. One thing is certain, ununiformed combatants do not have any protection under the Geneva Convention although a combatant power may choose to recognise captured ununiformed combatants as "soldiers" (ie the Viet Cong) but there has never been any obligation for them to do so.

So if they are not soldiers are they criminals? Criminals do not blow themselves to bits in order to mass murder civilians so that they can spend eternity bonking 72 virgins. Nor do criminals normally arm themselves with anti tank and anti aircraft weapons and armoured vehicles, as the Taliban did.

So I think that it is time for the civilised world to rethink it catagories again. Add the catagory of "terrorist" to "soldier" and "criminal". This would be very similar to the old British concept of "outlaw" (outside of the protections of the law.)

Shoot him on sight, stick his balls in a vice and ask him polite questions, kill him, and bury him in a pigskin.