I'm sure anybody especially the desert peoples were probably happy with their self governed societies before the invasion of their "superior" conquerors. and you said that they showed on television that they were sooooo skinny? maybe. but then again can you honestly sit here and tell me that they would show a happy culture that got taken over? there is this thing called propaganda, (i think i learned about it in 7th grade)that shows one side of a 2 sided story. Whether it b vietnam or korea the government showed propaganda that we were winning the war. we now know better. Now for all intents and purposes maybe a couple civilizations have been bettered off because of their fellow conquerors. For the other 99.97465% of conquered peoples and lands thats not the case.

THA
I hate to bring this up because it is something which not talked about in polite & fashionable circles. But there is some evidence emerging that maybe the Aborigines were not the first settlers in Australia.

The various peoples of the world have been moving around the world for tens of millennia.It would a safe bet that all peoples, at some stage in their migrations, have displaced other peoples.We all have blood on our hands, and we are ALL migrants -including the Aborigines -it’s just a difference of how long.

To establish a caste system based on the length of ones residency in Australia is highly divisive.

Horus says:

“Rancitas,
’While you may have used the plural when talking of Aboriginal culture/people.The general practice is to use the singular, & my comment related to that practice. ‘ “

Horus no you are being silly and dishonest now. You first said:” Rancitas,
I think we need to stop talking about Aboriginal “culture”- singular. “ That is addressed to Rancitas and “we” inclusive. It’s misleading.

Horus says:

“Any early unity & resistance of the Aboriginal people(s) -where it existed- was localized & centred on tribal identity. The “unity’ that we have today did not come about as a result of any spontaneous, internal force(s) but was nurtured & fabricated by leftist ' intellectuals' “.

I Rancitas says: “So what. Why are you trying to politicise this? I am not involved with any political organisation. Are you? My interest is more in the social and cultural aspects. Nevertheless, kudos to “leftist intellectuals’ for helping Indigenous folk negotiate the white-fella power structure. The lefts’s sense of justice is admirable.

Horus says:

“White’“atrocities’ was just one of many divisive, poisonous slanders employed by the left to justify their stand, & was closely followed by ‘Land rights’ ‘Aboriginal deaths in custody’ ‘The stolen generation’ “.

The atrocities against indigenous folk are historical and documented. Your aversion to Indigenous history suggests racist thinking.

Rancitas repeats: that at a Sorry Day memorial in a park near us, an Indigenous speaker, whose Mum was taken away at age five, said: ‘ Nine kids were forcibly removed, my grandmother was shot dead while trying to save the kids and mum limped all her life after being shot in the top of the right leg.
’They are were sent to different places throughout the state and were not allowed
to be reunited.
’My aunty was about 26 when she was eventually reunited with one of her sisters.’”

Rancitas accepts this and the hundreds of other much more brutal accounts.

Don’t let Boltspeak con you. Boltspeak is parroting propaganda from decades ago. Bolt has no creativity so feeds off other’s (hence his resentment of artists . cont-

-ued.

Horus- says that the leftists selected the best traits and elevated them to represent the rest and that the left methodically and deliberately extinguished, according to you, Horus, the “lesser” Aboriginal cultures. Back it up. It ‘airy fairy racist rubbish. The Indigenous people have backed up their claims with evidence. You produce nothing but clearly racist and politically motived smut.

Rancitas says invaders and settlers extinguished Horus' "lesser"? Aboriginal cultures.” Horus equating living where the invaders settled is “lesser” is an illogical aversionist nonsense. European settlement brought those negative pressures to bear. The disintegration due to settlement, loss of land rights, introduced disease and vices, outright murder happened before then. Left politics only appeared early 20th century. Your aversion racist thinking blinds you that simple logic.

You say that I let myself an “out” by claiming that they sorted thing without "total war". No “out” but an honest statement. Horus goes offshore and compare tribal cultures that have little relevance. Indigenous culture was not “tribal” because its social organisation and relationship to territory was more flexible. There was no total war in Australia.

I didn’t miss your point. You were and have been proven to have distorted Rancitas’ view and mislead readers. I was arguing for that diversity to continue rather than fall into monoculture. Other posters can confirm position on multi-culturalism.

You also used that old a cliché. “The pathway to hell is paved with good intentions”. So you confess to bad intentions? That is a utilitarian idea which is double speak to undermine people’s confidence in themselves. The road to HEAVEN is paved with good intentions. I think good ends can only be achieved with good actions based on firm principles. Sometimes negative immediate outcomes will be discouraging but, if we refuse to undermine the ultimate good by holding to the proper Teachings, then,if things are finally done as they are in heaven, then this place will stay improve somewhat.

The Indigenous peoples' have had, and still have, 1984 style control and doublespeak forced on, and undermining, them. That is the problem. It must be addressed.

What an amazing piece of condescending misrepresentation of our status from "bushbred" (posts, Monday, 29 May 2006 7:21:05 PM)straight out of the annals of 19th century.

Quoted here for reference;

"One thing we must not forget, Wendy, is that the Aborigines are a conquered people who have no way of fighting back. You only have to look into their eyes to read their minds. They are beaten, and will often try all the tricks they know to put it over you, as it is their natural way. Yet it still pays to treat them kindly, and never cruelly, because they hurt very easily and always will.

In some ways, we also owe it to them, Wendy, for after all one could agree with them when they have the courage to say, well, you took our country."

Conquered people!!? Huh!! You wish! Have you ever taken the white sheet off your head to examine how we celebrate our achievements. Read the Koori Mail or National Indigenous Times to find reports on shining examples of how we have been ["fighting back"] quietly going about our business, reports that you will not find in abundance in mainstream media, this despite the adversity of resistence from fools like yourself who peddle rubbish.

"try all tricks", you say!!? Yes, I must admit, we are clever at articulating our inate ability to survive 200+ years of eurocentric policies, evidence enough i say. So bring it on! I am one waits for you and your spawn. Treat us kindly!!? Well, this would be nice for a change if there more of it instead of the paucity currently extended to us.

Rancitas
You use the word "racist" as if it is some mystic incantation guaranteed to drive off any demons who challenge your views.

One of the advantages of having limited historical records is you can fill the void with all sorts or 'airy-fairy' propositions:
-Aborigines did not have 'total war' (whatever that means!)
-They are not comparable to other indigenous cultures
-All vices and diseases were brought in by outsiders
And no one can "prove' you wrong.

As for the “atrocities’,in most cases the “atrocity” stories are the subject of few details & much dispute, dredging up such stories serves little worthwhile purpose in today’s Australia.
They do not “provide closure” as we are often told –all they do is perpetuate a circle of hate & blame.

Some Australians had relations massacred at Vinegar Hill & other at the Eureka Stockade,And many had relations massacred or enslaved by the Turks, British, French, Arabs or someone else, at some time, or other. But they do not live life with a black armband & expect everyone descended from the transgressors to recompense them.

As for the removal of children –many white Australian mothers also had children removed.White mothers could tell you many similar stories –if you were willing to listen.
And if your concerns about this are issue “principled’ & not just a debating ploy, you may need to look at the situation in many aboriginal communities at the moment, as it may lead a repeat.

Very little is to be achieved by us sitting around exchanging, or collecting, horror stories from our past