Australians are constitutionally equivalent, but for those who are indigenous, also. That is, they are indigenous in addition to being constituionally equivalent and yet their prevalence at the bottom rung of social privilege is unambiguous.

It would seem that indigenousness (in Australia) is a social liability. Does this mean that Australia socially discriminates against its indigenous people and can it possibly be interpreted in any other way?

Social deviance is predisposed by a perception of inequity.

Barbara's idea from the Queensland "Safe House" sounds like it works because it is organised, run and maintained by the women to protect themselves and the children. At the same time, there needs to be eductation for the boys. No means no, and sex abuse is wrong in both cultures. It is up to the boys in a young age to change the cycle to change their ways that will make a big difference. The elders need to confirm that rape in their culture is not acceptable either. This is not an issue that European Australians can impose a foreign legal system on aboriginal people. This will only be met with cultural a firewall anyway. The only way it will work is within their own culture, and I think they can do it for themselves, even if they need some consultancy and some resources.

While this debate rages, I hope that people remember that for many years Indigenous people have been saying that child abuse etc is a problem.

Boni Robertson (Qld) and Sue Gorden (WA) wrote reports on the topic in recent years. But it is not until it is stated by non-Indigenous people that the topic is able to spark outrage.

Public outrage has seen the police begin to act. Why has it taken so long for action?

The problems were there for years and the police were there for years.

I am concerned that the many decent and trustworthy Inidgenous men are being denied a place in this debate.

Aboriginal women and children need strong decent and trustworthy men for their wellbeing. Just as the men need strong decent and trustworthy women and children for their wellbeing.

Indigenous women have been speaking out for a long time - but need the men to stand beside them in confronting this issue.

So please make an intellectual space for the many Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander men to speak out against this abomination.

Aka means grandmother

Leigh's realism is commendable. Barbara Biggs's irresponsibility is typical of journalists given the chance to fill op-ed space with their mostly fanciful and even self-contradictory ideas. (A basic contradiction has people in government or Aborigines with resources like ATSIC, after 40, or 170 years of comprehensive failure, fulfilling her wish list).

But Leigh is wrong on indigenous people and alcohol. They can't handle if for easily understood reasons. Consider the superior way that Jews and Mediterranean people, with their 10,000 years to breed out the village drunk, handle alchohol compared with drunken Northern European louts after only 4000 years. Native Americans, Inuits, and almost all other indigenous tribal people have the same extreme problem as Australian Aborigines.

Leigh's tough-minded refutation of Barbara Biggs's fatuous “Throwing people in jail has never worked..." deserves support (largely insoluble or merely very difficult problems that excite the rhetoric of those who enjoy moral outrage commonly elicit fatuity; the Alchemist's contribution below will serve to illustrate the point**). US stats since the height of the crack cocaine epidemic, for all that the homicide rate remains horrendous, provide the proof, albeit at the expense of locking up about a third of African American 16 to 28 year old males.

**When "The Alchemist" writes "We must remember, governments of today are purely devoted to economic outcomes for their vested interests and have no intention of doing anything but feathering their nests" he proves that his ivory tower has never been visited by a real live politician or bureaucrat.

IMHO we could find the money but not the people or proven workable ideas. So pilot projects make sense now. But, unless anyone can believe in revival of ancient Aboriginal culture, assimilation to the modern is the only way for all those children whose degraded elders can do little for them. Boarding schools are the only answer that has ever had a good record in the past. Why not ones to which mothers or guardians could attach themselves, at least periodically for some weeks as helpers and perhaps as adult education students themselves?

The only thing that will work is they are treated the same as us in every way.

We blew it by letting them have heaps of money with them in charge.
People blame the white for the mess.
Yes thats right it is our fault because we let them bully us into running this country by tow sets of rules.

one Australia and bring in the Army to sort them out and give the army the power to use the funds.
Take kids being abused.
Just find a backbone.
They dont have to all hobble together and need placeing in housing amoung us to mix in and work in the many jobs available in this country.

Dream Time is over.

TBG, your own statement, provides evidence for what I say, by advocating more pilot programs which is just the bureaucracy saying, give them something to look at and it will go away. The bureaucratic and political approach is to have an inquiry, develop a pilot program that gives bureaucrats lots of money, travel and extra facilities. But gives nothing of substance to those needing help to cope

You certainly have no understanding of culture nor how it relates to ones approach to life, when it relates to a very old and stable culture thats been bastardised by religion, decimated by commercial interests, (grog, junk food and tobacco sellers, mining and grazing) and fobbed of by politicians and bureaucratic elite. Simple solutions from simple minds. No inquiry, pilot program or more money will help, money doesn't solve cultural and social issues. Its compassion, understanding and worthwhile long term development of situations, that encourage the indigenous to evolve their culture and become part of society at a rate that allows adaptation, not assimilation.

I have no time for city kooris who whinge and moan about their lot, they have more support and resources that the average person available to them. The problem lies in the vested interests of politicians and bureaucrats who live so far from reality, that they can only see themselves and their next pay packet.

You can see this in giving bureaucrats priority in childcare above others, higher salaries than most workers, less work, more perks and constant stuff ups and resource waste they create. More than any other organisation in the country. Look what they've done to immigration, health, transport, defence, indigenous affairs, local government, show me one bureaucratic department or politician that functions in the best interest of the people.