Some comments from a person who has been both a unionist and business owner.

In North America I worked construction where workers worked below capacity to lengthen jobs.

I got great union won wages and conditions on a very hard site. The companies could well afford the pay but wouldn’t have if not for unions.

Scheduled as a restaurant worker, I slogged half an hour through snow to be told to go home again. So, no work or pay that day.

I have seen unreasonable demands by some Australian unions causing ruination of businesses.

As an Australian employer, I had disloyalty, theft and an unappreciation of paying $5 an hour over award.

I now work casual for $5 an hour less than I used to pay my employees. It would be much less but for unions. We’ve been told to up productivity or lose our jobs offshore. Don’t like it? - leave.

I am now a union delegate.

There has always been abuse on both sides but now employers are far too strong. Some unions went too far but employers used the whip hand before that. It’s happening again. Unions are important to check this.

Many people don’t realise what Australia has just lost. When I returned in adulthood I was flabbergasted by this fantastic country, running well with a high standard of living, little poverty and few social ills. This has changed dramatically.

We don’t need Howard’s dog eat dog laws here which are as bad for small business as workers. Everything’s in favour of big business gobbling up small. Anyone bought fruit, vegetables, meat, pharmaceuticals, newspaper, deli products in a supermarket lately or paying too much to use their bank, by any chance? Howard’s laws are bringing this on.

Two suggestions – First, Australians use their dollars effectively and work together, patronising small business over big business and small business giving workers decent pay. Second, if you don’t like the way unions and political parties are run, join a union and/or a political party and change things. And that’s my 45 cents worth.

Daggett (sorry for misspelling your name earlier) – I have now read some of your numerous postings elsewhere and obviously you spend a lot of time reading and posting about economic issues.

You say in a previous post – “Are we all to join your organisation(http://www.wsws.org) of all of the dozens of organisations now in existence claiming to be socialist, and from now on, give to it all of our spare time and money and our souls?” I have some comments:

If you accept what I said in my previous post about the inevitable logic (and anti-democratic consequences) of capitalism and the dead end of the ALP, then the question that must be answered is – What is the solution? The solution is to reorganize the economy and society on the basis of social need, not profit – that is what socialism is, and is what you seem to want (from your posts).

The next question is – How do we do that? The only section of society that can do that is the working class. The working class produce every man-made thing, and service, in the world – i.e. all of the wealth – and the majority of it is taken by capitalists. The working class have to be made of aware of this, and of the collective power they have at their disposal to take it back. The international working class must be unified and made conscious – that is what (true) socialists do.

So while you belittle the work that socialists do, I suggest that it is far more productive than your futile attempts to convince the likes of Col Rouge of the error of their ways. Col Rouge is part of the bourgeoisie, or – more specifically, he would like to be, and is more likely to be “petty” bourgeoisie. And “petty” seems to describe him pretty well. The man may be multiply qualified in finance but patently lacks genuinely human qualities. His arrogance is sickening, and his big-noting very revealing (and unattractive) – he is not as happy/secure as he claims to be.

(tbc)

(continued from above)

I agree with you that there are many groups claiming to be socialist, most of whom are merely middle class radical protest groups, and many of whom are positively disastrous for the working class. You (or anyone) should of course be discerning about the groups you associate with, or get information from, or give your time and money to.

While I am not a member of the wsws.org’s party (Socialist Equality Party in Australia), I may one day join. I have found the news and analysis on their site extremely informative, honest, and enlightening. I recommend it to anyone who is interested in real news. And I believe Daggett, you are.

An article on the IR laws can be found here: http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/nov2005/inre-n15.shtml

Articles on the 2004 Australian Election can be found here: http://www.wsws.org/sections/category/news/au-2004.shtml

Sly, I understand your worries about the IR laws, but whether or not the High Court overturns them, they (or similar laws) will be introduced by hook or by crook in other ways – probably by the ALP. Remember how the ALP brought in the troops during the pilot strike?

Belly, I note you have picked up on the new buzz-word for Labor – middle Australia. Just tell me, do the Unions and Labor support capitalism? If so, they support the right of capitalists to exploit workers.

pattipatpat, nice of you to join us. I can tell you are a
wise person, as are most in this forum. I just hope that Howard
voters realize the sorry state he is leaving this country in and that they vote for anyone but him.

Tao wade through my miss spelling and try to understand me better.
I came from the very left, was so active dureing Whitlams years the goverment spys wrote and told me I was on the list.
My frend I was wrong, you are wrong, NEVER not ever will middle Australia, there I go again insisting the majority of Australians matter, will suport or vote for any kind of socialism NEVER.
Nore should they, a better way exists take away the need for effort and no progress will ever be made try Tony Blairs way it is Australian Labors future.
Wealfare alone is no answer, tell me of a realistic answer to John Howards removal, the conservatives removal that doe,s not include a middle of the road labor goverment.
Realistic now tao.
The thought that a trade unionist, ME, could be other than left of centre is of interest, that hopefully is the best we can ever hope for from those who elect goverments just left of centre

Shorten the Savior ("I've got more TV exposure than Eddie Everywhere!") should leave the union. The way he struggled with mining terminology when interviewed shows he hasn't got much idea about what the members actually do. Mining unions always oppose safety initiatives such as workplace alcohol and drug testing. Aviation unions are doing that today as well. So much for union concern for safety.

Statistics of the top 10 incomes by postcodes (see link) show miners doing very well (e.g Dysart, Roxby Downs, Gove, Blackwater). More than $100,000 a year for driving a truck is nice, and the Howard government just slashed their top tax rate.

http://www.ato.gov.au/taxprofessionals/content.asp?doc=/content/70906.htm&page=7&H7