I think this will strengthen Unions in the long term. However I can us having to refight fights we had decades ago.

The problem with the deranged ideology of Howard and co is their belief that somehow unions and unionists dropped to earth from outerspace 10 years ago just to bedevil them.

There seems to be a belief that they are alien creatures with strange ideas like wanting to work safely, to have decent wages, to have some job tenure and little things like that.

Things that have been fought for and won by unions over hundreds of years and things that Howard wants to wash away with a stroke of his vile pen.

John Howard shot himself in the foot - Bill Shorten has been spectacularly brilliant in one thing - he has shown all Australians who seem to have the same mad ideology as Howard that union bosses are human beings after all.

I agree the collapse/rescue will focus workers attention on the role of unions.

There could a different take on how that will be manifested though -

Mining in Tasmania has long been controversial particularly after the introduction of longer shift patterns and the flying in of workers under labout hire companies who, in some instances offer little allegiance to the local towns.

Some might think the unions were a bit weak to let that happen. Similarly if conditions are dangerous the unions - up to now - have been unable to offset the folly of Management

A miner died at Renison Bell on the West Coast of Tassie in 2002 - the safety of the shift patterns then was brought into that debate then and it looks like not much has changed. Any action by the unions now might be considered too little too late.

As for Bill Shorten I viewed his attendance at the mine with the same cynicism as I saw hte presence of "Kochy", the sunrise team and the other "headliners' from current affairs -

I mean what gravitas,authority or experties did either party, and I include Shorten in this, add to the occassion - None I would venture.

The attendance of both parties were exercises in headline grabbing.

Howards attack on the unions will back fire based on its very nature. The real test for the unions after what in a political sense is a free kick in the form of WorkChoices is whether or not they still have the capacity to run with the ball.

It seems almost impossible to stop Howard's train. The media appear in general to be brain dead to the destructive influence of his person, style and legislative changes, particularly the IR laws. Sadly and yet amazingly it has taken the mining event in Beaconsfield to arrest attention. But it will not last long. Our narcissism in this time in history knows no bounds, nor does workplace bullying. Narcissism never builds community, family or cohesion. It destroys it. Add prosperity to that mix and you have a time bomb. Andrews and Howard are not focussed on people, community or relationships in a way that a mining community can and does. The Howard Govt focus is materialistic productivity. Their individuality focus and personal prosperity spin is the right compost for the further growth of self-preoccupation and the destruction of community and real brother/sister support. It seems a disaster is about all that will re-build what we are losing - whether it's a mine cave-in or worse. Certainly the IR legislation is feeding the growth of our greed and workaholism when what is missing in the growing loneliness of our lives is real community that is not based on productivity or acheivement. Australia is becoming what Howard and his cronies have been all their lives.

I look forward to the day when The Rodent takes on the two most influential Unions left in the country - the National Farmers Federation and the Australian Medical Association.

I know they aren't industrial Unions but hey, neither were the students!

I think Shorten did very well indeed. Despite all the media goading, he refused to take the bait and switch to attack mode and freely gave credit to the mine Management wherever it was due.

To me, he was the voice of level-headed reason throughout and I hope he doesn't do anything now that may threaten this status.

Unfortunately, a significant number of conditions had already been "bargained away" by the Unions themselves before this latest assault on working conditions and this may need to be justified to many members before their full support returns.

Article 23(4) of the Human Rights Declaration states:

Article 23.
...
(4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

While the right to join a union is not in question, the right to join a union that can protect ones interest is, if the access of unions to workplace is curtailed. But perhaps common sense does not apply to legal documents.