The Howard Government is doing a lot off damage in many areas, end of story. I only talk facts, black and white. Alot of crap is written in this forum when at the end of the day the facts are this current Australian Government is destroying this country and must go.

I'm not talking about ALP, Bill Shorten, ACTU or what ever other dribble you are all fighting over. Who amongst you agree the Howard Coalition government must go? without attacking any other parties.

shorbe your last few posts have shown me you may want another path but you do understand others views.
Sly without reservation surely its clear my views are Howard must go? that anti union posts are anti worker and anti Labor ones never come from me!
Information of actual suport for the MUA cash time and total are put down by tao constantly.
My path to fairness for non conservatives and Australia is via the ALP.
HAS ANYONE a beleif it can EVER come from socialism?
Tao has but surely an unrealistic expectation?
Review the whole thread every post, mine included and no question can be unanswered surely?
Voters yes they alone will make the choice Howard further damages Australia or Labor starts to undo the damage.
It will depend on how many of the new 3 times conservative voters we can win back to Labor, that is reality, watch the advice given by radicals who refuse to understand that fact, it betrays those who need to undo workchoices and so much more.

Sly it is not reasonable to discuss the need for a particular government to go in isolation from what the alternatives are. Your desire for a blanket answer regarding the failings of the coalition whilst ignoring the failings of the alternatives might make you feel good but does not produce real answers.

Those who are looking to fix up the ALP are trying to ensure that when the current federal government eventually go's what they put in it's place will be of some value. Maybe it is time to have a read of "Animal Farm" (or re-read it if you have forgotten the message).

I've seen how Beatty treats workers in Queensland and I'm not sure wether to be more concerned about the federal governments IR laws or those IR laws in the hands of a Labor Government. At least with a non Labor government the unions speak up when workers are getting done over, my experience has been that they are much quieter when it is a Labor government doing the deed.

R0bert

Shorbe,

That’s entirely my point, demonstrations, “democracy”, unions, will not change anything because capitalists are in control and governments are their lackeys, opposition parties are equally their lackeys and exist so that when we think something needs to be changed we’ve conveniently got some party of a different colour to vote for. But really, unless they oppose the profit system, they are all the same. Absolutely nothing would have stopped the Iraq war except overthrowing capitalism.

All I am saying about the demonstrations is that there is a lot of dissatisfaction with what is going on, and because capitalism and “democracy” is in an advanced state of decay, it is only going to get worse. Capitalism can’t afford to give concessions to workers any more, hence WorkChoices. In addition, they are legislating away our democratic rights – look at the sedition laws, and anti-terror laws which allow you to be locked up for two weeks without anyone knowing where you are (which the ALP supported), the new ID card. The US has basically trashed the principle of habeas corpus, and the Geneva Convention and our government supports them. They are preparing for the inevitable backlash that will come from the people against the worsening conditions under the cover of “the war on terror”.

Where do you think capitalist democracies come from Shorbe? Revolutions, or the threat thereof, which are driven by progress and development in the means of production which must break out of the earlier political and economic systems, not crazy nutters. (This is very simplistic and probably not quite theoretically exact). Production is now completely global and highly socialized, and capital is highly mobile and cannot be contained within nation states.

Daggett, how are you going with all that reading? I forgot that I actually had a lot of trouble when I first started reading the site, and I was really peeved that they “attacked” (really just thoroughly analysed and criticized) every other party. But I gradually came to understand what their political line was. Now, whenever I want real news with background analysis, I read their site.

Bring on the ALP, Howard and the coalition can look you in the eye and say with a straight face the earth is flat. Go back 15 to 20 years and no one liked Howard because they could see straight though him. Next time you have that vote in front of you, vote 1 labor or geens , democrates, independent. I would rather a sensible 15yo run this country than the current Libs and Nats.

Dear Interest rate voters, your vote is the reason for this current mob of Cowards. Howard does not control interest rates.

Work Choices is going to cost 500 million+ to implement, A real leader would of spent that on renewable energy and childcare, etc.

Sly some who taunt you and I and my union and its leader are not Labor voters.
Each will say the votes they cast may end up with Labor but its not always true.
The thread however is about unions, and the handfull of Australians who want a social utopia are in too small a group of numbers to have any impact.
As a union oficial I want to say not all workers care about unions or Labor, many vote conservative and very few vote extremist left.
Workchoices must be fought and in my view Labor must be prepared to get true honest reform on the table long before this election.
Extremist left? well further left than the greens is what I mean, now that is left!
Bill Shorten? the insults come from the fact Bill knows Hawke and Keitings path is about right for Australia ,and given the fact voters only vote for such partys he understands hunting voters away is unwise.
Yet unmade history will confirm Shorten to be a great servant of the ALP.
Yes I wear my heart on my sleeve but workchoices demands a new goverment and a fair go at work .
Last am I wrong in hopeing that Labor goverment will be reformist? inovative? and put policys in place that match the Hawke Keiting ones?