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The Forum > Article Comments > Musings on Easter > Comments

Musings on Easter : Comments

By Irfan Yusuf, published 18/4/2006

If we want to be Christ-like, we should make time for the saints of our era, whomever they may be.

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Coach - you put out faith as fact again, at the same time accusing me of failing to support my case. This is online opinion, remember, not online scholasticism. While I have done some reading and research on the topics of our discussion, I'm not going to bore everyone and waste my time by quoting chapter and verse. I am aware that there is claim and counter claim regarding the veracity of at least some sections of the Bible. So no doubt, I could claim and you could counter claim. I have just short circuited that by pointing out that it is a matter of faith, and that point is beyond question. You claim it is the 'truth' and I don't accept that. If it is incumbent on either of us to prove their case, it is me, not you. I have cast doubt on the veracity of the Bible, but cannot definitively prove that it is not the undiluted and unaltered word of God any more than you can prove the opposite. What I have asked you to do is to accept that while you have your faith, which in no way offends me, it is clear that you cannot at the same time tolerate any beliefs that do not accord with your faith. That to me is classic bigotry. I don't see that I have anything to apologise for in pointing that out. I have made it clear that I am not offended by your faith, but I don't particularly like naked bigotry. If you are insulted by the description, then perhaps you should review your position.
Posted by PK, Thursday, 20 April 2006 12:36:43 PM
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A nice warm, fuzzy piece from Irfan, trying to interrupt our prejudices by calling street people 'saints'. As I've said before, religions nearly always start out standing up for the poor and oppressed, because the founders of religions are themselves poor and oppressed. It's just self interest. When the religion gains power, it usually forgets its beginnings and seeks to maintain its power. The most curious way of watching this transition is by reading the books of those religions which continued to collect their holy texts throughout this transition - notably, judaism and islam. Both forgot their warm, fuzzy past and justified any oppression which benefited the religion. Both also had traditions of speaking truth to power; the Prophets in Judaism and that type of jihad in islam which is 'the word of justice in the presence of an iniquitous ruler'. Note that this is a very minor aspect of jihad, of which the major meaning and tradition is religiously regulated warfare.
Note also that the saints in islam that Irfan refers to, the sufis, were the most vigorous in the violent expansionary jihad of the first few centuries of islam's expansion and colonisation. I suspect that many muslims who know this would not thank Irfan for the likening them to street people.
Posted by camo, Thursday, 20 April 2006 4:28:10 PM
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Stan and Patty,

People can beleive what they want in the free world, it's when those beleifs are to do with hate and the desruction of my country such as the lovley lil meeting (several hundred people) out Hizb-ut-Tahrir in Bankstown Sydney last week.

http://democracyfrontline.org/news/?p=387
Posted by meredith, Thursday, 20 April 2006 6:08:06 PM
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Come on you blokes!
Allow Ifran to have what he feels is a real experience for himself. I neither agree with Ifrans or Bill's theology, but allow him a different learning experience. Where you are today in your thoughts and beliefs did not happen in one nights revelation.

Of course we have all the old chesnuts from the atheists. I could answer them with reality but the subject is about the service and sacrifice of Jesus. Did Judas mix with Jesus? Yes Jesus had among his friends theives, scheemers and Zionist zealot sympathisers, Judas was one of them.
Posted by Philo, Thursday, 20 April 2006 6:19:30 PM
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Philo, your post starts by commendably showing a bit of tolerance for those with whom you disagree. It takes a turn for the worse when you talk about giving 'atheists' a 'dose of reality'. Any such dose could only be of YOUR reality and this is not necessarily reality for others as I'm sure you realise. You go on to admirably refrain from attempting to deliver such a dose. Nobody on this opinion site has a monopoly on truth or reality. Meaningful exchange of opinion is best started by acceptance of that point as I take it you have. Anything less descends into strident proselytising, then into stances such as condescention towards non-believers for being 'deluded' as can be seen in posts above.
Posted by PK, Thursday, 20 April 2006 9:49:34 PM
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Francis, Adolf Hitler was a devout Christian. As for Pol Pot and Stalin. Where were the Christians who are the defenders of the poor and oppressed. If this world saw more faith in action instead of the empty rhetoric, (Jesus loves you, know Jesus,) we're all subjected to, there would have been heaven on earth long ago. Christians talk a good game but in everyday life I see very little from them. Look at how the Catholic Church turned their backs on the Jews during WWII.

Irfan a Muslim lawyer has an Easter experience he chooses to label as serving of Saints. Those saints being poor, and mentally disturbed. That on the surface is faith in action. Only his God knows what's in his heart. Just as only my creator know what's in mine.
Posted by Patty Jr. Satanic Feminist, Friday, 21 April 2006 1:12:58 AM
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