Because we began talking about stories, and I know Philo and Martin would love a little teddy story before they go to bed, here is a Jewish teddy tale. Just love Jewish humour ..... usually warts and all. However, as with most stories, it comes with a question or two (for Martin) at the end.

"
Sarah meets Josh at a dance. Later Josh shows Sarah around his house where she notices that Josh’s room is full of teddy bears - hundreds of them. There are cute small ones on a shelf all the way along the floor, cuddly medium-sized ones on the next shelf up and huge bears on the top shelf. Sarah is surprised that such a virile man should have such an extensive collection of teddy bears. Nevertheless, she decides not to mention this but soon succumbs to his sensitive side. Later, as Sarah is lying there she says to him, smiling, "Well, Josh, what did you make of that?"
Josh replies, "Help yourself to any prize from the bottom shelf."

Q1 Martin with so many of these teddies and where finagling is endemic, is your good teddy that you are so proudly advocating, a top shelf teddy? i.e. an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent teddy who created the universe, logic and reason?

Q2 Martin, do you agree with Hitler, that "Secular schools can never be tolerated ..."? Why?

Dear Bronwyn...thanx for the reminder....

Should I urge you to ease up on the secular stuff ? :)

Have a lovely remainder of a weekend and a nice new week.

Buy your petrol early , prices will probably skyrocket prior to Easter.

cheers

OK Philo, so homosexuality is bad because there are health risks. Fat people are much more likely to die of cancer and heart disease. In fact, obesity kills many, many more people than homosexuality. Therefore, homosexuals are bad, but fat people are worse? And don't even get me started on ciggarette smokers.. and fat ciggarette smokers must be practically Satan himself. Yes?

The health results are more - circumstantial evidence, after the fact.
The angst there, in this post, Mr. 'hellothere' - certainly tells its own story.
But I think this is off the topic a bit.

I have been reading these comments with interest. It seems to me people replying to this forum are old hands at beating each other up. I would like to make a few comments on some of the underlying arguments through the list. I am not so much looking for an argument as trying to make people question their pre-established beliefs and values. I have had to split up my posts to fit the maximum word limit. Also all the links are just starting points for further study.

RE: Homosexuality
I am a Christian so I believe, for religious reasons, homosexuality is wrong. I think the people on the list are arguing past each other. One person is wanting to know why homosexuality is wrong while the other side is demonstrating that homosexuality is unnatural (with all the medical evidence being listed). Having said that even though I think homosexuality is unnatural and having it on show in public actually has a negative affect on society (a fair position to hold based on reason) Christians who spend so much time vehemently arguing against it have their priorities screwed up. There are soooo many more bigger issues to fight against – social injustice in all its guises (poverty, the IR reforms, the exploitation of the vulnerable). Sure, if someone wants to know your view on homosexuality then tell them. But if you are wasting so much breath on it you must believe there are no other social ills to deal with. Which I think is tragically wrong.

RE: Christianity is some kind of “Evil Empire”.
This myth has been around since the early 20th century. Its so wrong on so many fronts that its impossible to list them all. Suffice it to say that Christianity has been the greatest force for social good in the history of humanity. If Christian charities were to disappear tomorrow the entire welfare system would collapse. For those interested I list the following books which are a great “summary” Christian history. They were written by Rodney Stark who was initially an atheist but as he learned more about the history of Christianity he become a Christian himself and an apologist. I challenge everyone on this forum who thinks Christianity is somehow evil to read his books. Then again I would understand if you didn’t want to, as much like Rodney Stark found out, its dangerous to study.

The Rise of Christianity
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060677015/qid=1144798803/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-2405056-8568014?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

One True God
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0691115001/qid=1144798803/sr=1-8/ref=sr_1_8/002-2405056-8568014?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

For the Glory of God
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0691119503/qid=1144798803/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/002-2405056-8568014?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

RE: NAZIS, Stalin and other atheistic societies
I have to say I am astounded at anyone who would argue that NAZI Germany and Stalin Russia were some how the result of religion, in particular of Christianity. That is not only crazy but shows a terrible lack of knowledge when it comes to history. These atheistic societies killed more people than the entire world history of religious conflict. Just some quick links to get people started. Again I recommend people do a lot more reading before they start spouting off about stuff they clearly know nothing about. As it just makes you and your “side” look childish:

From Darwin to Hitler : Evolutionary Ethics, Eugenics, and Racism in Germany
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1403965021/qid=1144799162/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-2405056-8568014?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

Index of related Nazi and Communist links:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/communism.asp?vPrint=1