Hellothere,

Humans can discern right from wrong, but we're not the measure of all things.

The moral law is as objective as mathematics. Some understand it well, some poorly. Some societies have darkened their collective conscience by ignoring it, others have strived to adhere to it. A study of ancient writings, including holy books show the same things said time and again. Show mercy, do not steal, look after the underprivileged, respect one's father and mother etc etc.

CS Lewis ‘The Abolition of Man’ or his essay ‘The Poison of Subjectivism’ I found helpful (because as a genius he can write in an easy to understand way)

The outcome of pretending that moral relativism is true - that right and wrong is relative to the individual, (rather than independent of what one dreams, hopes or wills to be right and wrong) is described by Leszek Kolakowski.

“You must know that nothing is good or evil, but I am teaching you that some things are good and some are evil, in order to induce in you conditioned reflexes which are useful for the maintenance of solidarity in communal life which is neither good nor evil but must be seen as good”

“The natural social self defense against education so conceived (that is an education which gives up authority or employs authority while at the same time proclaiming its fictitiousness) is understandable. Since an effective inheritance of values is always the work of authority, and every act of emancipation from authority may arise only in the name of values absorbed thanks to authority, a scientistic upbringing is therefore an absurd utopia.”

Scientistic here meaning that somehow empirical facts alone can give rise to values.

Authority here meaning someone who knows what is right and has a right to do it.

The standard exists. We often don't live up to it but its still there. Moral relativism teaches that the standard changes over time. This makes a mockery of the idea that humans can gradually become better, that societies can improve.

Kay,
I am not your judge. Your life stands or falls in your own conscience relationship to the character of perfection. If you know the message of Christianity, you will realise we have all done things less than perfect. The gospel is that God accepts and forgives imperfect people and gives them imputed [perfection] rightness of character. Their values and focus as a response should be in seeing the true image of the character of God expressed in their lives.

Quote, "You say that God is "perfect". I get the impression that as a devout follower of Christian God, you think you are made in that perfect image? I guess therefore that you have not ever made any mistakes, told a white lie, lost your temper, said damn or buggar - and that you have always held people of other religious or non-religious faiths as equal to yourself?"

I prefer to say no more on the homosexual issue on this thread as there has been other threads where it has been covered. Except to say that teachers in the Public Education system are indoctrinating [brain-washing] all infant children to accept that a homosexual lifestyle is normal. It is the act of anal sex that is an abomination, that increases the physical and emotional health curses upon a society. Go to Google and type in "homosexual health' and read the medical research.

Kay, loved your post.

Interesting how Philo claims not to be your judge. He certainly follows me around OLO offering little judgements on me. I dare say if you engage in riposte with Philo more frequently, he won't be able to contain himself and no doubt will pass comment on you. Notice also that Philo has not admitted to any past (or current) indescretions.

Thereofore, one must conclude that Philo is perfect.

Philo: This is for your edification. I know that you are perfect, but I guess that doesn't mean you know everything if one reads your claim:

"It is the act of anal sex that is an abomination, that increases the physical and emotional health curses upon a society. Go to Google and type in "homosexual health' and read the medical research."

Philo I suggest that you widen your Google searches.

On the subject of anal sex, many heterosexuals engage in anal penetration with either a penis or other phallic object. While it is not my preferred practise - too painful and just generally revolting, it is not the province of gays only. In fact I knew this Christian man rather intimately who liked to........

The reason we split up was due to my refusal to become a born again Christian. Oh and sexual incompatibility....

;0)

philo,
in response to your question, the department do not allow mention of God in performances that are offered to public schools . Needless to say, private religious schools make their own rules.
Donna

Lyrebird, Surely you can see that the comments in this thread are evidence that the telling of Biblical stories in schools would soon become attacks on Muslims and other religions; lead to exclusion of children that disagree with the story teller's interpretation of Bible text; attempts at conversion and coercion; the reintroduction of the age-old warring at lunch time between the "cattleticks" and the "press-buttons" and, of course, thanks to the constant mis-representation of the majority of folk who belong to Islam - these days the "mossies".

And seriously do any of you really want to expose your children to the "storytelling" of the likes of Baraka and B's childish racist attempts to stereotype people of other race, who B religiously identifies with a particular religion, by the behaviour of a few. The behaviour which, I think, these individuals, who are not representative of their culture, learn from western, and thus, using Barakian "logic" - Christian websites.

So Baraka and his fellow-travellers, using B's logic, B's stereotyping methods, B must belong to a culture that approves of rape. B.. must disapprove of Muslim rape - on racial grounds and approve of Christian rape because B's (and B's Christian accomplicises') hatred has twisted their thinking so the disorder and hypocrisy in their own "Christian" culture is whitewashed. So by trying to paint all Muslims with the one brush most of it has covered Baraka. B's behaviour is called "levelling" -bringing others down because you and yours are feeling inadequate.

Also, Lyrebird you have exposed the rights own form of political correctness. That the Education Department can assess that it is is best that people not rely on the state or some religious zealot for their children's moral instruction suggests that the Education folk are not bowing to the demands of the religious lobbyists, and thus, are not letting political correctness (for the right) influence their decisions.(Manners)

Donna,
Well written, well done!

The over-reactions from so many, are to be expected.
Certainly the present climate of our public education system is a result of an arrogant mind-set hijacking the school system, away from Judeo-Christian roots. I have witnessed the way this has been done - often rather sneakily - with the public schools system. And what a mess so many of them are in. What are meant to be reasonable learning environments, often end up as government sanctioned rabbles.

As far as I can see, it is because of their view of the world (without an eschatology), that the secularists have no stories of ultimate significance to tell.
So I think your work will continue to emerge amidst the debris. But it will still be a battle.
Stick at it!

We need to recall that Jesus was not into political correctness, at least not in the frightened way we see it being bowed down to in Australia. When asked, he simply stated God's purpose was deliberate, and his way of doing this was clear for all to see, if they would.

'Salvation is from the Jews' said Jesus.
And some very good kids stories too: ... 'off came the giants head! Up went the cheers!'

Cheers.