Right on Strewth!

Seems to me that Thor was actually trying to argue that it is worse being raped by a Lebanese than an Anglo!

Has he had some personal experience to validate this latest absurdity?

Rape is rape and endemic to all races, colours, creeds. It is used by both sides in times of war and has always been about power over and humiliation of the victim.

This latest attempt at vilification of Islam is truly pathetic when the very issues of sexism within this religion exist within ALL religions. Ordination of women in the Anglican church? For example.

For Thor to use such a spurious argument and then to follow up by an equally sad attempt at insult - apparently (according to Thor) that I stated I was raped was an 'emotional' response indicative of an education in the arts. Well, apart from revealing an inability to conduct a rational debate, Thor - it as a Bachelor of Applied Science (Landscape Architecture) to which I owe my ability to reason even with the unreasonable such as yourself.

Now BD - I am giving you far more attention than you deserve - but women are mostly abused by men they know well rather than strangers and as a result of my experience I learnt self defence and have become as independent as I am. Women don't need protection BY men, we need it FROM men and the only people we can trust are ourselves.

Sorry for the lack of relevancy, but sometimes it is necessary to clarify for those who lack sufficient wit and intelligence.

Strewth didn't answer my question, likely because he couldn't bear to admit the truth. Your answer basically agrees with all my points anyway so I don't see what your against, other than that you're one of those people who, although they strongly believe in seperate ethnic identities, when it comes to crime prefer we are all Australian.

I'll ask it again. Do you deny that there the problem RACIALLY MOTIVATED gang-rape is something UNIQUE, repeat UNIQUE, to Islamic diasporas? (there is evidence of this from every single diaspora in the western world, as well as in Muslim nations, with Kurds gang raping Sunni's, or Sunni's gang raping Shi'ites, and so on, as happens often in Iraq)

I'll give him/her another example about the nature of the religious aspects to these crimes, as bizarrely, he denies them.

After the trials of the Skaf pack rapists (thirteen men in all, not one drunk - not an excuse but the only time a non-Muslim gang rape happens is from those who are drunk), an SBS crew went to Lakemba mosque, repeat mosque (note the religious link Strewth, a place of ISLAMIC worship) to get their views.

They were bashed, as they have been before, by the way, at the same HOLY mosque, but before they stopped filming they got some footage of Muslim racism. They asked a group of men what they thought of it and one yelled out "they were just sluts anyway" to which the entire mosque laughed.

If you don't see the value of women in that to these people you aren't worth explaining it to.

How dare you turn the rape stats in Europe that one of the posts mentioned around, saying he must hate muslims

Scout, you can't be serious when you comment that all religions have sexism as though they are all the same.

In Christianity, sure they don't ordain women, although some branches of the Anglican church aren't far away, with gays as well.

In Islam, and you really should know this, women aren't even allowed into the same part of the mosque. They can't give services, although one progressive Muslim homosexual woman in New York tried to, and is in hiding now.

Unlike Islam, in Christianity, if a gay wanted to start his own church, nothing would happen. Actually, the church goes as far as to say that gays don't go to heaven.

You try starting a gay mosque even in Australia, and Muslims here (who would have to be more liberal just by being around us - as opposed to say Afghani tribesmen) would KILL you, nothing less.

Wake up Scout, they aren't similar at all, and I'm objective - I don't believe in God.

Your comments to BD about women not needing protection to men, you don't need to tell him, you need to tell Muslims, who believe they are protecting them from evil men when they cover them up, don't let them drive a car or go outside without men.

You'd never think a culture that values women so highly would ever produce rapists would you, let alone scores of gang-rapists who all get together, drink no alcohol, yet somehow can be so cruel?

Rape is endemic to all races, but the issue of RACIALLY TARGETED PACK RAPES are unique to Muslim diasporas. It doesn't matter what you believe, the evidence is overwhelming, especially when you consider the high rates of it in Europe.

Read a little more Scout!

Have you ever heard of King Solomon Strewth? The Temple Mount, Knights Templar- Knights Hospitilars, etc, etc.
Start from there and work your way up. I can identify who your lecturer was, or is, and where. Those traits are quite specific And very Dangerous.

BB , that is a tough Question, I need some time to put that one in writing.

David Stove had an article on: “So You think you are a Darwinian”, located on the post above, and there lay specific points to counter that proposal, and another source is : “Sir Arthur Keith”- Evolution and Ethics. Are excellent sources from a scientific perspective. Fide Mae answered that in a most outstanding mannor on another thread.
I have to run, I will try being more Specific later. Seya.

Dear Scout
I'll ignore the deliberate personal insult "Lacking intelligence and wit"
and continue as though it had not been uttered.
You surprise me, biting those who reach out to you ...curious behavior indeed.

Sexism in the Church ? well, as for the Pope, I don't happen to think we ever needed or need one now. The Pope from my understanding is a human tradition, based on a shakey interpretation of one verse in the gospels "Upon this rock" etc...

So a female pope to me is moot.

I've covered this territory before, but it seems to have gone in one ear and out the other.
No question that there is a 'structure' in the New Testament, placing husbands in Authority over wives. But I repeat for the umpteenth time, it is a sacrificial and giving leadership "If anyone seeks to be first among you, he must become the servant of all" kind of thing.
I don't apologise for this, and I happily wear any flack about it.

Lets be clear about one thing though, the New Testament at no time suggests that a man can have multiple wives or that he can use an 'owned person' for sex. This was not the case in the Old Testament either. A man could MARRY a slave girl if she agreed, but he could not have sex with her apart from marraige.
The Quran is diametrically opposed to this, and allows the use of 'captive girls' FOR SEX ! Sura 23.5-6 The Quran SPECIFICALLY allows domestic violence 'you may BEAT her'...

I fail to see why we are charged with 'dumping on or vilifiying Islam' when we are speaking nothing but the truth. Backed up by facts.

The simple fact that in moderate Malaysia a womens movement has sprung up in protest at these practices being followed TODAY, by MAINstream muslims is evidence that it is a serious issue which needs to be exposed mercilessly. Call that vilification if you like. I call it responsible citizenship.

I stand by my assertation that there is not one religion on this planet which truly treats women and men as equals. One can troll through any religious text and find examples of women being treated as chattel. I have quoted a few examples in previous posts.

Now, Islam - desperately needs to be brought into the 21st century and many Muslims are trying to do this. But they won't have a chance while they are condemned as extremists and terrorists.

Christianity - equally needs renovation - while it is not as primitive as Islam it certainly has a long way to go before it is accepting of women as having equal status as men. (I merely gave the pope as an example - there are plenty of others).

As for the Islam bashers - look to yourselves first, that you persistently paint all followers of Islam with the same brush merely indicates your narrow minds and inability to see past your own set of beliefs.

Just for the record - I previously posted about a very bad experience I had with a Muslim colleague. Her behaviour had nothing to do with her religion - sociopathic behaviour is not exclusive to religion. I could easily be like all the rest of the bigots on this web-site and join in vilifying religion; she caused a great deal of misery - but I'm not that small minded.

I know that the majority of human beings want to get along with each other irregardless of their race, colour, sex or creed. Its just common sense. A sense that is in short supply among bigots.