'My understanding of the reproductive process is fine Meg. What you flushed down the toilet were potential babies, just lacking the odd sperm. If your ova met up with some sperms down those sewers, are you responsible for murder ?'

Yabby, you have again shown your pitiful understanding of the human reproductive system...a sewer would not present the necessary conditions for sperm to fertilise ovum.

Yabby: 'The emotionally challenged perhaps don't understand the science, but we can't help it if some people lack an education.' Like Darwin, anyone can come up with a theory, that does not give it scientific credibility, Yabby. If you haven't had the benefit of an education, don't assume the same for the rest of us.

'You have distorted my words Meg, good Christians should not be deceptive and liars :) I never claimed that the Catholic Church plotted to support the eating of bonobos and chimps, that is simply the result of their fanaticism to create even more little Catholics.'

Sure sounds like Yabby blaming the Catholic Church for 'little Catholics' eating bonobos and chimps...distortion and deceptive lies? - again, solve the question of what they can eat, or accept they will eat what is available.

RE: 'Economist Jan 25th 2001.' You won't read Time Life's articles containing scientific proof of life, but you ask me to take an article in the Economist as if it were the bible, which you also don't accept as written truth, hmmmm, lies, damned lies and statistics used and believed when they suit, any wonder Darwin appeals to you.

RE: My 'religious buddies' and contraception - if the world felt that it was ok to kill anti-lifers, I wouldn't agree with that either because I believe only the Creator should decide when your time has come. 'my religious buddies' don't exercise my free will - I decide to choose right from wrong and I would hope that if I make choices against the teachings of Christ, that they didn't follow them either Yabby.

Every woman wants her children to have a good life. Australia is a democracy that places high value on the individual. The individual [family] is responsible for rearing its children. The individual [family] must house its children, feed them, keep them healthy, educate them and can only send them out to work when they reach 15 years. So I think its quite reasonable for the individual [family] to judge for themselves whether they can rear the child.

We harshly judge the draconian fertility laws in Roumania that had all fertile women checked for pregnancy monthly and their unwanted spawn starved and deprived of sufficient stimuli to grow in functioning human beings reared in state orphanages.

You may have as many children as you want [or can bear] and I will pay my taxes so that they have access to health care, state education and subsidised housing - if needed. But I do not want you to impose your views on my body.

billie,
Sometimes society must impose values on persons for the good of the society. For instance: I know well a girl who has had four children while on heroine. The grandparents rescued the first from cigarette burns and violent abuse and she or her boyfriend drowned the second. The next two were removed at birth and placerd in adoptive homes after court rulings.

That was the State imposing values on one who did not care about acting responsibly to avoid pregnancy. Actually she wanted babies but drugs affected her judgments.

Quote, "But I do not want you to impose your views on my body."

If you continue to abort babies from unwanted pregnancies then that would indicate your lack discipline in your behaviour and value of human life. Tuberligation ought to be imposed by the State after the second unwanted child by abortion

Philo - how about vasectomies for the males who take advantage of drug addicted women? It sure wasn't divine intervention that caused the pregnancies.

Many posters to OLO complain about the 'nannie state' - well the height of this interference of government into the lives of its citizens would have to be when politicians can place themselves above medical experts such as the TGA.

‘I do not want you to impose your views on my body’ – then Billie take responsibility for your body and the results of ALL your actions too. Abortion kills another human being, therefore you need to accept the consequences or learn more about how your reproductive system works.

You won’t accept that there will always be 16 year old girls (and others) who become pregnant and need assistance, that’s some tolerance. I doubt you are perfect yourself, so perhaps you could accept there will always be a need for imperfect humans to be given considerations for one reason or another, even you!

I am happy to fund the legitimate needs of others through taxation, but I am not happy to fund the killing of any sector of society, including the unborn.

That you refer to babies as ‘their unwanted spawn’ speaks volumes about you and your attitude towards women and their children generally – in this country there are no unwanted children, just lists of adoptive parents waiting for the privilege to accept one of these babies into their hearts and homes.

‘Sometimes society must impose values on persons for the good of the society.’ Philo makes a valid point and his tragic case history indicates clearly that there are times when people choose to make decisions that harm themselves and others…society has to care enough to protect the person and those they would otherwise harm.

Philo “Sometimes society must impose values on persons for the good of the society.”
Meg1 “there are times when people choose to make decisions that harm themselves and others…society has to care enough to protect the person and those they would otherwise harm.”

A persons body is their body to use as they see fit, not as “society” sees fit.

Hitler used the same excuse to both threaten women who sought abortion because nazi society “cared enough”.
Mind you he used the same “protect nazi society from the danger of the Jews” to murder millions too.

It is the same old “co-dependency of the individual with society” claim

As is stated by the psychiatric profession and mental health professionals

“Codependency is a progressive disease brought about by child abuse,” www.habitsmart.com/cdpnt.htm

and

“It is also known as “relationship addiction” because people with codependency often form or maintain relationships that are one-sided”. www.nmha.org/infoctr/factsheets/43.cfm

Like those who want to create a relationship (throught decision to control) in the private lives of strangers who do not care less about the views of the unsolicited wanna-be co-dependent.

Philo state imposed “Tuberligation”
and maybe we should allow only those with strong Catholic values to breed too?
Criminalising pregnancy is a very very dangerous path to go down,

People, acting as individuals will often make mistakes of judgement.
However, the mistakes they make are personal and far less serious to when the State makes a mistake.
Giving such authority to the “state”, to sterilise parts of the population it is there to serve, is an horrendous opportunity for abuse of power, as was seem in the 1920/30 when “eugenics” was thought of as an acceptable interference “for the benefit of society”.


Meg1 “needs of others through taxation, but I am not happy to fund the killing of any sector of society, including the unborn”

And I am not happy to subsidise the pernicious efforts of RCC through tax breaks for religious organisations and free/discounted land allotments to build churches on.

I guess none of us get all we want!