Interesting forum. As the male partner in an unplanned pregnency, we both exercised a choice. She chose to not abort, and I chose to stay. We are both pro choice. This choice was the best option given the circumstances. She nearly aborted. This would have been the best long term outcome, if not for the greif associeted with the choice. This does not make having the child in a prevoisly planned no child marriage (result of failed contrception - 2 methods no less) a good one, merely an acceptable one. If there was no choice on either of our parts, I don't think the relationship would have survived. Abortion can't be an argument about society, rather about how society treats the people within it. As mentioned, the understanding and humanity of the individuals is what makes the society, not the other way around. The abortion debate has to remain about people and their right for self determination. I read this post with interest and can't help but be saddenned by the seemingly dogma motivated comments that remove the sensitivity from the crisis situations of individuals and couples in favour of enforcing an ideal. I can tell all of you with absolute conviction, as can at least one other poster, people considering abortions are in crisis - and it's one of life's big ones. Removing options in a crisis makes the crisis worse. No reasurance of "God's Will" or "God's love" can change that, and even if it could, religion embraced during crisis is not religion freely embraced. Pro lifers should be overjoyed - the baby will be born soon, but they must relise that this is what choice is, freedom to choose, and we've chosen to give it our best shot. To the pro lifers - Keep you rosaries off my wife's ovaries, and trust that people have the capicity to make the right choice. This will show that you actually care.

Know enough, etc...Congratulations! I hope you come to terms with the imminent arrival of your son or daughter and to an acceptance rather than a regret of the circumstances of the conception.

As you have indicated, the choices were made by you and your partner, not the baby. With two failed contraceptive methods, the baby is still not 'to blame' for the conception.

Pro-lifers make choices too...are you suggesting that they should not be allowed to voice their concerns or views?

I refer to my comments above and re-iterate them.

When a society fails to value and protect the most vulnerable, the repercussions are soon evident in the loss of value all through the life cycle. They are abundantly clear in our society today.

I wish you the unexpected joy that your little one can bring you.

Pro-lifers live in the real world too. Most have experienced the difficulties and challenges of life too - accepting responsibility for our actions does not remove 'choice' it simply makes you more aware and thoughtful about the choices you make...

"it simply makes you more aware and thoughtful about the choices you make..."

Meg, anti choicers want exactly that, to deny other people choices,
based on their religious dogma of holy sperms and eggs.

Thats the real problem! If they were so thoughtful about choices they make, they would be thoughtful about human suffering that they are causing with their blind following of the claims made by one particular pope. But then by that dogma, suffering is ok, its holy sperms and eggs that matter.

Luckily what you believe is fast going nowhere, even Catholics
agree http://www.catholicleader.com.au/index.php?id=3013

The way things are going Meg, there will only be Meg, Tony
and George left, waving their placards and singing their hail
Marys :)

Meg1, I think you're missing the point. I respect your right to choose life, I don't respect you're right to judge others on their choices. A feotus is not viable unless the parent/s choose to provide the environment in which it can grow. Life is fleeting, not sacred. Nature reminds us of this whenever she can. Not to disrespect life, but if the rights of the fetus are sacred, as an inseparable entity from the mother then interventions that may benefit the mother while adding risk to the baby in the event of complication are by consequence wrong. You can't have it both ways. Either you embrace the choices that modern medicine provides or you don't.

Choice is about deciding the best outcome given a situation and having options available. There may be no good outcome (our case) but you call it as best you can at the time. This is not ethically wrong, nor does it make abortion murder. The Baby has no choices, and neither it should, it is part of the mother during pregnancy. This fact will remain until babies can be grown ex utero. To assign it the rights of a minor is to make women little more than incubators with a duty of care. Her rights as a person legal are overridden by the rights of the foetus. This is not just.

on the personal note of your concern for my situation, thanks, but I'll leave it to my therapist to help me decide if this is worthy of congratulations. We don't blame the baby. I almost pity it, because we both have busy work schedules, and so it it will likely grow up around a nanny. I won't be ceasing the overseas travel that my income relies on, nor will I cease the domestic recreation that is inconsistent with children. We have found ourselves in a situation, as will the child. That's the cause and effect of the situation. The point here is that sometimes children happen, and it is not the majical outcome depicted in the marketing material of the parenting industry.

Yabby, you’ve made yourself abundantly clear in your obsession on this and other threads regarding all-things-Catholic – it’s clear you’ve come into conflict with the teachings of the church on a particular issue and expect the church should bend the rules to suit your leanings. Others have made similar demands in the past. Whether it’s on abortion, homosexuality or any other issue. Like anything in life – rules apply to ‘membership’, even your local footie club…that’s life, that’s reality. You have the right to be Catholic, or not – you chose to leave the church, yet can’t accept that your own ‘choices’ aren’t the churches. It’s not Yabby, it’s the rest of the world who’s wrong, huh? Perhaps you could start a cult of your own…like so many others have, when the rules didn’t suit.

Know-enough-etc, life is BOTH-fleeting-and-sacred…wait until you hold that precious little life and ask yourself again…is he-she less dependent on you to feed and allow him-her to grow when a newborn, toddler…throughout childhood?

You’ve judged I’m judging others right to choose…quite the contrary, I passed no such judgement. My argument is that we make a choice when we make love to a life partner, a casual acquaintance, whomever…whether that sex-encounter results in the conception of a child through planning or failed contraceptives doesn’t change the result. Surely if we don’t condemn perpetrators of the most heinous crimes to death…we shouldn’t condemn the innocent unborn either. There’s a consequence to all our actions – children don’t make themselves.

The ‘choice’ is made before conception occurs…and you’ve simply accepted your responsibility, despite the failure of the contraceptives. I can appreciate the angst that would have caused. With contraceptives, babies are always a ‘mistake’ – we expect things we plan for to work and things we purchase to do the ‘job’ they’re designed for. Perhaps the drug companies should be sued in a class-action by all parents of babies conceived-through-failure-of-contraceptives. I don’t hear the babies complaining though…

‘There may be no good outcome (our case)’ I’m unsure what your real message is here…

tbc...

Cont…

…if you truly feel your ‘choice’ isn’t the best option for you then have you considered others may welcome your baby as their own – perhaps a couple who haven’t any possibility of having their own child. Australia’s-lengthy-adoption-waiting-lists ensure that none can be regarded as ‘unwanted’.

Raising a child does require commitment, but so does any relationship, including a relationship between partners. As long as your child knows that you love him/her and the time you are with him/her develops a good relationship and wonderful memories together, you will find that children don’t need lots of material things but thrive on love and give back far more than they receive.

It’s not unusual under the circumstances of failed contraception to feel ambivalent or anxious about an expected child, your partner may have these anxieties - and then some - considering she will carry your child and give birth to him/her…perhaps will be the primary caregiver. I guess it’d be obvious that she’ll need to be supported emotionally as she comes to terms with the changes to her own ‘plans’ for the immediate future. I suspect your comment: ‘she chose to not abort and I chose to stay’, may hide more feelings for your partner than those expressed…as you espouse respect for the choices of others, that should also indicate that you’ll support those choices by accepting your share of the responsibilities involved.

The alternative ‘choice’ to kill the baby isn’t as simple as it sounds. Your therapist may have to develop a long-term relationship to guide you both after that decision…the statistics on post-abortion mental distress and trauma are documented, tragic and not uncommon. Many simply do not recover mentally, to say nothing of the medical consequences that may result.

The choice you’ve both made is anything but ‘no good outcome’… for all of you. My Congratulations is sincere as is my wish that your little one adds a new dimension to your life, despite being unplanned. There are many who would trade places with you in a heartbeat…a new life is not an option for them, ever…