Yabby,
I note you persist with your opinion that a fully chromosomed conceived human is not a living human until it breathes for itself. That is your right but it does not reflect the reality I observe.

That tiny form will never become a monkey even if transplanted into a monkey. And a tiny form of a monkey will never become a human if transplanted into the womb of a woman. It is a human being with potential as been previously stated, and not a potential human. Even as a newborn is a human with potential.

That Scout does not prefer to learn lessons from the hard experiences of her life is her decision. Scout introduced her experiences into the discussion as statements of fact to uphold her opinion. If she feels hurt by the discussion ensuing and the wisdom that could be learned from her decisions is not merely a religion that falls from heaven, but the effects of decisions made without preparedness for the consequences.

I've had to counsell young women who have been physically abused by their husband to take out court orders to restrict his abuse. So if the husband becomes violent toward themselves or the children they can call the police. Violence can be restricted by court orders, and a night in clink gives the husband time to think and cool down. These relationships are now well managed and there are children involved in reasonable families. In fact the children support their mothers and are achievers at school and in their lives.

Philo,
Feel proud that your kind of Christianity has done more to turn people from your God than any other…

Philo “My position is that if any person [including abortionist doctors] who deliberately terminate the life of an unborn child after conception unless for the healthy survival of the baby or mother is guilty of murder.”

The abortion doctor is bound by the Hippocratic oath.

You do ignorant of specific circumstances and thus, are not competently equipped to pass judgement on what happens in a doctors surgery.

Your analysis is flawed
Your supposition is false
Your judgement invalid
Your opinion not worth a hoot.

In these things what you post resembles the diatribe of vitriol we have come to expect from Meg1.

I suggest you lift your game, reading a few of the other posts on this thread, other people are likewise noting your decline into the fanciful world of religious fervour.

Scout “continue the fight”

For me it is not just about abortion. Abortion is merely a flash point. The debate is about recognising that the individual is not subordinate to society or social order but society and social orders only exist to support the individual.

Rex – I think I could (and should) learn from your suggestion re trolls – this old dog is prepared to try a new trick or two :-)

Re moral issues and consenting adults – agree totally. Only through considering choices, making decisions and living with the outcomes do we develop as individual human beings.

Philo, your belief in court orders is novel. About 5 years ago, the police only just managed to get to my partner (of the past 4 years) in time to stop her abusive ex from choking her to death (previous occasions she had suffered a broken jaw and perforated eardrum as well as lesser bruising).

Restraining orders only work on those who actually care enough to read them.

I pale at the thought of you counselling anyone. Those seeking counselling need support, reinforcement of their self esteem and unconditional love. I see nothing like it in your posts.

Reason “Philo, Feel proud that your kind of Christianity…”

Agree. But the sanctimonious just don’t see it.

"I note you persist with your opinion that a fully chromosomed conceived human is not a living human until it breathes for itself. That is your right but it does not reflect the reality I observe."

Philo, I'm not sure if you don't have the intelligence to understand the science or if you purposefully invent words for me. I've never mentioned breathing anywhere. You then jabber on about monkeys for some reason, no good reason.

A person has a functioning human brain. When Philo's brain stops,
he will be a corpse, no more a person. Before Philo had a functioning brain, he was a human organism, not a person. Nobody is denying that human organisms contain human dna. So what? In your life you would have flushed billions and billions of little sperms, all human organisms, down your toilet. So what? Women can create 400 little human organsims in their lifetimes, most are flushed down toilets, they can't all survive, thats the reality.

Now which ever way you try to twist things, organsims are not children or people, no matter how much religious zealotry you try to use to twist things. A piece of steel is a piece of steel, not a car, its a potential car. Same with organsims, they are potential people, not yet people.

Fyi, as a human, you Philo are classified as a primate, in the same part of the evolutionary tree as bonobos and chimps. In fact you share 99% of your dna with them, so are more closely related to them, then they are to gorillas. Get used to it Philo, they are your long lost relatives :)

Hey Philo!

You have such nerve to twist and manipulate everyones words dont you?

NOT once did i say that it would be the governments fault if a girl fell pregges and wouldnt be able to have an abortion cos of it!

Quite frankly i think that as ive said before its up to the woman and the woman only not the friggin government! But abortion is legal in australia and so it should stay legal! the only thing that has changed is the method and now that is legal and has been approved anyway so there is nothin you can do about it.

Guess what Phillo im also a Christian and your judgemental attitude disgusts me! People like you are the ones who give us christians a bad name!! You should nt be the one to judge its not your place but Gods place!

What eva the woman does is her business and its between her and God.
He will judge us accordingly and to our circumstances and im sure that
he wont condemn an abortion if the 'child' was going to be born in to a negative and painful life more than a positive life!

Dont you dare twist my words or make me look like the bad one here!

Thank you very much.

Moni.

Ps Scout,Reason and Meg good onya for getting stuck into Phillo
Not all christians are like him!

Reason: Only the most obtuse or unreasonable would suggest similarity to terrorist bombings directed at someone protecting innocent life against attack, was REASONable.

If that’s your idea of ‘discussion’, your decision to take-your-bat-and-ball-and-go-home is probably wise…

‘I have not once attacked you personally, or your beliefs…I transgressed and apologised regarding my comment on religion.’

You've done both, repeatedly (refer posts) and supported others who did likewise. Your apology was ‘for applauding Col and Yabby, I concede I was siding more with them. I apologise...will keep an eye on myself in this regard.’…not religion.

Blatant untruthfulness requires response.

Although Rex appears to support your view that anything goes if it’s what he wants to hear…

RE: consent Rex, there’s none from the unborn…they’re certainly affected unreasonably. …‘unbelievably insulting, unfeeling arrogance’ describes much that has been proffered by your ilk, but hardly describes comments to Scout…mild by your comrades continuing examples.

Have you used your post to exemplify ‘trolling’…?

Reason, The claim was that TRUTH IS universal…it IS!

RE: ‘broadmindedness’ …keep working on it…once you understand the meaning.

You claim ‘ignorance is bliss’…you’re the expert and a clear winner there!

RE: ‘raising my ire’…you asked ‘when a human becomes a human’ … the majority (society,etc.) should decide, then the individual should…(flip-flop) - irrelevant to Scout’s post other than majority should have decided for Scout? Or Scout (the individual)…you couldn’t decide.

Failure of pill-Yabby, strike against the pill-not NFP.

Scout, you claim control of ‘your body’, Philo justifiably pointed out your inconsistencies. You raised personal details, yet repeatedly accuse pro-lifers of intruding …are you asking to be credited or declared a martyr for choosing to abort?

Whatever circumstances – two wrongs won’t make a right and it doesn’t help to say ‘what you want to hear’.

You learn from mistakes by acknowledgment. Your case vs there are many single mothers and also adoption.

Baby wasn’t the problem, your relationship with your husband was. Baby suffered the consequences.

You’ll find more empathy amongst other women who‘ve resolved their abortion distress, than seeking justification amongst those who would use you like a flag.