Scout,
Sorry to hear that your niavity of how babies are formed and unpreparedness to avoid a pregnancy caused you such distress. I am sorry to hear your reason for the termination of your child was because the father was an absolute thug. The wisdom of that experience would be; be sure you know the character of the person with whom you share the intimacy of your sexual life and dreams.

To the doctor the usual experience of pregnancy was a happy experience for a pregnant mother. However any prepared, secure and informed mother desiring a child would normally rejoice with the doctor. The wisdom of planning a family as husband and wife to have a child is demonstrated - contrasted to tears and fear and terminating of a life.

Quote, "When I found out I was pregnant my first reaction was to cry. My doctor was attempting to congratulate me while I sat on the surgery floor in tears. I was pregnant to a cruel, manipulative man who I was trying to escape from. I could no more bring an innocent child into that environment than I could hit a kitten."

Col,
My use of the example of the boyfriend not being able to be charged with murder was to demonstrate that persons holding your position that human life begins at birth cannot be charged with murder on a child prior taking the first breath. I assume you realise that it is a third person who takes the life of a late term pregnancy - the abortionist doctor severing the head of the child

My position is that if any person [includind abortionist doctors] who deliberately terminate the life of an unborn child after conception unless for the healthy survival of the baby or mother is guilty of murder.

Philo

I try very hard to refrain from personal insult on these pages, however you have really overstepped any entitlement to respect with this:

"Sorry to hear that your niavity (sic) of how babies are formed and unpreparedness to avoid a pregnancy caused you such distress."

On another thread I posted that I WAS ON THE PILL at the time I fell pregnant - however even if I wasn't using a contraceptive there is no excuse at all for such comment.

WHY?

1. You know nothing of how I came to be involved with my then husband.
2. You do not know that like many abusers he did not have a SIGN TATTOOED ON HIS FOREHEAD stating that he was a bad choice! Many people who did not have to live with the SOB thought he was charming!

It is to my CREDIT and COURAGE I managed to escape this man in one piece. That I am still here today to be the butt of your verbal abuse and insincere "sorry to hear" is a result of my ability to survive.

Had I continued with my pregnancy I would've been guilty of child abuse not by my own hand but by bringing an innocent child into a dreadful relationship. There are too many children already who suffer abuse of all varieties and I am PROUD that I have not contributed to those sad statistics.

Col, Reason, Yabby et al please continue the fight, these sanctimonious control freaks need to be kept in check. They cause as much misery as abusive spouses. They do not care one wit about life only their dogmatic control over the lives of others.

I have never been so angry before on this website. In conclusion I can only point out that the ignorance and sheer stupity of Philo's judgemental post has revealed him for what he is.

I will, in future, read his posts with his sneering abuse in mind - he has lost any credibility he may have had and I have no doubt that many others on this website will agree with me.

Hear Hear Scout.

Meg,
Your inability to conduct a fair and sensible discussion leave me no choice but to ignore you. Feel free to claim whatever victory you like – that you cannot see discussion as any more than attack is your own problem.

I have not once attacked you personally, or your beliefs. I simply wished to discuss the issue in a broadminded way. I transgressed and apologised regarding my comment on religion. You have ignored that and now use it to reiterate an attack on yourself. Very Christian.

Best of luck Meg. Enjoy your life. I have nothing further to say to you regarding this matter, except that ignorance is bliss…

Scout,
My sympathies on the ignorance of those who cannot look beyond their narrow, fear induced world view. I have always respected and admired your sincerity and patience on this forum. You again substantiate the initial comment that incurred Meg’s ire for me. I look forward to your future comments and agree that sometimes the best way to deal with ignorance is to ignore the ignorant.

Philo,
Such obvious superiority in your words just proves that Christianity is easily claimed and hardly ever a reality. I would hope an apology (if you can at all manage it) is forthcoming and a little humility is learned.

I am always willing to discuss what I do not believe or understand in a reasonable way. Any anti-abortionists who can do so, please feel free to dialogue with me.

"My position is that if any person [includind abortionist doctors] who deliberately terminate the life of an unborn child after conception unless for the healthy survival of the baby or mother is guilty of murder."

Your position also shows why we need to keep the religiously obsessed out of Australian politics Philo. For when they put religious dogma ahead of our ability to reason, religious tyranny
is not far away. Get out your dictionary and see for yourself.
A zygote is not a person, murder applies to people, not to organisms.

Both Osama bin Laden and the Christian Church makes claims about their respective truths and what floated down from the heavens to them. At times both want to force us to accept their dogma. Both have no right to try to do that. We tolerate freedom of religion,
but we also want to be free from religious intrusion in our lives.
Religion's role is as a lifestyle choice, no more

From my occasional post on the abortion issue, I'm sure it's obvious to all that I am strongly pro-choice. In fact I'm pro-choice on probably all the so-called moral issues, where participation [or not] is by consent, adult consent if appropriate, and no-one else is unreasonably affected.

I post on a number of forums, on various subjects, and I stick strongly to the principle that I do not feed trolls. I am not suggesting that any of the anti-choice posters are trolls, in the usual sense, but some [not all] of them exhibit some remarkably troll-like characteristics. And that's why I will not respond to them directly and rarely indirectly.

But I certainly admire Yabby, Col and others for their reasoned responses and Scout for defending herself with dignity against almost unbelievably insulting, unfeeling arrogance.