(Cont…)

More Portuguese statistics…but still no verifiable data…and your own questionable stats continue to contradict your claims…

Pope John Paul 11’s record’s a direct contradiction of your own and your dismal attempt to besmirch him has again failed miserably…

No-one’s as obsessed with contraception as you are Yabby…nor as out of touch with world-wide reality…as a direct result of your abortion propaganda and that of your doctors-of-death…billions of babies and millions of their mothers have died around the world…and continue to do so.

…including the two US mothers who died last week and their babies after using RU486 – the drug that’s bringing the abortion industry into the ‘backyards of Australians’…a lot like the Santoro tragedy…women who’ll die alone, unnaturally…

Trivialize the differences between ova and foetus’, Yabby, it only displays your obtuse and insensitive disregard for women generally…and total contempt for babies universally.

You claim you’d campaign against beating wives, if it was a religious dogma…so because it’s not, you don’t campaign against it? Do you condone it as well as the abuse of babies by abortion?

Your advocacy of ‘anti-baby pills’ spells out your repulsive agenda clearly…pressuring women to kill babies, particularly African babies, displays consistently racist overtones that I find particularly distasteful.

Promoting that the ‘…availability of abortion…can therefore be considered part of the struggle against poverty.’

…clearly indicates…it’s not about women’s choice? Abort all those ‘poor’ babies rather than allow the parents a living wage to support their family…that’s your reality – discrimination!

Contrary to your accusations Yabby, I have NEVER attempted to ‘tell’ any woman, by any means…’how many children they should have’…I have however, offered to care for temporarily, or raise as my own, children whose mothers needed either of those options offered to them. The option of overseas adoption is available to me as it may be to you Yabby…guess who is the more likely to consider it? : )

Having my own Swedish-links I’ll re-educate you:

Sweden led the foray into contraception and abortion (freely available)…it hasn’t led to greater respect for women or sexual-responsibility, documented fact…nor has it lessened the abortion-rate.

Te, the deaths of tens of thousands of women are due to illegal abortions,
performed in backyards with faulty equipment. A vacuum aspiration is much like a d&c, ask your doctor as to the safety of that. If abortion were legal
in the third world, it could be performed by doctors, rather then threatening
them with 10 years jail.

No Meg, my livelihood has nothing to do with abortion. I care for living, breathing, thinking, feeling people, not flawed dogma about potential people.

If the Catholic Church did in Australia what they do in say Nicaragua, as
is evidenced in the bbc paronama series that I quoted, there would be
riots in the streets here! It is truly disgusting that a religious organization
can get away with that, just because its the third world. You have yet to
say if you agree that a nine year old who was raped, should be forced to
have the child. You have yet to say what you think about the lies peddled
by the church in Africa, as the documentary highlights.

The Portugese stats are there to be read if you want
http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/IES/portugal.html

The huge lobbying of the Vatican around the world, to fulfill JPs obsessions
can be read about here:

http://www.population-security.org/cffc-97-02.htm

Read you own posts Meg. You are telling third world women what they need
and what they don’t. Let them decide what they need, not your forced ideology. But of course JP felt that people should be forced to live by Catholic dogma, much like the Taliban think we should accept their dogma.

Swedish women are doing fine Meg, unlike third world women, where your church wants to force raped 9 year olds to have children.

Te, at the moment it is safer for a woman in Australia to have a medically supervised abortion rather than complete a full term pregnancy.

So if a woman doesn't want to have and rear the child the law allows her to have an abortion. I want the status quo to remain as I have no religious belief that says every sperm is sacred and I want every child to be a wanted child and every child to be reared so it can attain its potential - not live a life stunted by lack of food, or lack of education or lack of adequate health care.

Like Yabby I am appalled that women in developing countries are denied the same rights to control their lives that women in western Europe and Australia take for granted.

Billie - please give me the references that you used to come up with the 'safer to have an abortion' myth. And that is what it is - a myth. There is absolutely NO WAY that a NATURAL function ie childbirth is more dangerous than a TOTALLY UNNATURAL MECHANICALLY obtained abortion. This does not mean that all childbirths go smoothly, but there are far less deaths, infections, injuries etc with childbirth than abortion.

Planned Parenthood (read - never-plan-for-parenthood) took off their website a few years ago the disclaimer that one could download off the net - it went on and on and on with the list of most likely damages to occur with an abortion - incompetent cervix, perforation of the uterus, loss of blood requiring a transfusion, incomplete abortion (read little baby parts that have been ripped off left inside), missed abortion (oops, that darn child escaped the canula) necessitating another abortion etc etc etc ending with'death'. Sounds safe to me!

Billie, sounds like you and Yabby and the now at least temporarily defunct Col Rouge meet up in fairyland and tell each other tales.

Still, God loves you all.

Question is Te, who actually lives in fairyland here ? :) All this
stuff has been hashed over on OLO before, on various threads. If I repeat it, I am accused of repeating myself. Yet there are so many like you, who seem clearly sucked in by the huge catholic spin machine which was so well highlighted in the Catholics for choice report that I referenced to yesterday. Sometimes I think that Meg is part of that machine, the way she distorts information.

If you question the data, learn to operate your own google bar, freely available from google. Then you can search for your own reference for an objective source of your choosing, not one with a religious agenda.

http://www.who.int/whr/2005/chapter4/en/index1.html

is a world health organisation url on childbirth risks.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/aboru486d.htm

is one of many website discussing the risks of ru 486. If you don't think they are credible, there are many more with similar referenced data. Fact is that virtually no deaths have occured in Europe from
ru 486. Ok one, maybe another. Its insignificant. America has a handfull more, still only a handfull, due to their lack of medicare etc. Meantime 200 women a day die, mostly in the third world, because abortions are illegal, so knitting needles and coathangers are used. Thats the real scandal! 200 a day! Yet Meg focuses on the one or two ru 486 cases. Thats real spindoctor stuff to me.

http://www.who.int/docstore/world-health-day/en/pages1998/whd98_10.html

Yabby, the WHO (no, not the group :-)) is one of the foremost 'promoters' of abortion. Before they drop food to a country, they unload boxes and boxes of condoms and other pills and potions to extinguish life.

Re RU-486 How you can flipantly say that one or two deaths due to UNNATURAL means is ok is beyond me. Lack of Medicare causes it?? What the?? Are you aware that with RU-486 a woman needs to make not 1, not 2 but THREE (3) visits to the doctor within the week? And please explain how RU-486 will 'get rid of' an ectopic pregnancy? So you are informed, one of the two drugs that make up the RU-486 shuts down the placenta and the second drug starts the contractions. If it is an ectopic pregnancy, these women can contract until the cows come home and it will not remove the dead baby. How is this in any way better for women? One of the side effects of the drug is that it supresses the good bacteria allowing the bad bacteria to flourish causing sepsis, so the woman basically has gangrene inside ie rotting from the inside out. Yep, sounds healthy and better for women to me.

You are aware of course that most 'backyard' abortions happened out of hours in a doctor's surgery. Of course the simple solution to all these 'unwanted babies' is that there parents could practise self-control (yes, that word is still in the dictionary) and leave the marital act for what it was designed for - ie within marriage. But we are the 'me' generation, aren't we and self-control just doesn't exist. If one does life a chaste life, they are accused of being frigid, gay, 'having issues' etc etc instead of being admired for their control over their very strong passionate feelings. Maybe you should try it sometime.....