So you're OK with teenage suicide, then, Justin86? It would seem all life is not sacrosanct, therefore, only foetal life. Odd. And as for the'young ones'' point of view - isn't it a bit hard to have a point of view when you don't yet have a mind?

Friedrich,

Sorry I was off raising a glass to celebrate the imminent humiliation of Tony Abbott. Yeah I guess I did get a bit carried away with Francis- I don't get to associate with people like her in my everyday life. It's kind of a novelty. As for debating you? You are pro-life but you accept that it is the women's choice? Hmmm, not really a great deal to debate there. I think we all consider ourselves 'pro-life' in the broadest sense of the word. But I take it you share Francis' rabid religious beliefs? If so, do you think God is happy with your stance of respecting the woman's choice while innocent babies are going to hell? I think not...

Faith and politics aside, the reality is that abortion hurts women. It's a lousy choice to face and one that no woman should have to face, especially in a society that has the capacity to offer more and better options. Even as I reread Kate's article, I am saddened by the reasons women choose abortion: lack of support, lack of more options, lack of resources, fear, and other equally tragic reasons. The truth is that abortion is not fundamentally about politics or religion. It is almost always a decision made by a woman who feels cornered in some way. Abortion has devastating consequences for all of us, regardless of political or religious persuasion. It is an issue of justice for both women and their unborn children, whose lives are lives indeed regardless of how small or dependent. Those who have chosen abortion know this and can perhaps speak to the other side of the issue: women and their children need and deserve better.

We should not prohibit abortion or abortion medicines. Having said that, I find it unpleasant to contemplate actual abortion and the more we can do as a community to avoid women facing that dilemma, the better. Such as promotion of contraception and family planning.

By way of background I was raised as a Catholic by an Irish mother and in my high school years attended Catholic schools. Predictably, my mother has had great difficulty reconciling my lifestyle with her personal values and faith. This, among other things, has led to our estrangement. Tragically, unconditonal love does not prevail in the minds of all mothers or if it did, my family would have such a part in my life that I would not be wandering the streets at night in revealing garments, at times surrounded in narcotic fog. There seems to be on their part a lack of recognition that I am a sentient being, and human.

Tony Abbott is a former seminarian who has been elected to public office. While I support his right to continue the practice of his faith, when in public office the people come first.

In what part of his mind did KRS1 concoct the idiocy of "a particular circle of hell reserved for the aborted"? I'm sure not even the woman who described her abortion as "a wonderful experience" (said directly to me in an Anglican Church hall after a discussion re "controversial matters".....this woman was interviewed on TV news recently) would stoop so low as to even think that aborted babies would be consigned to hell. By hell does KRS1 mean :sheol or gehenna? Most certainly in any case, aborted babies have suffered through abortion. One final question for KRS1: at what point would you prohibit abortion: the day before birth, a month before?

Francis.

Brougham “That's why - Col Rouge - this debate is about choice and we must speak up for those that can't. The unborn babies.”

This debate has always been about choice.

The choice is

does the woman who is pregnant make the choice

OR

Does your choice prevail

Now I am assuming the pregnant woman has the same cognitive and reasoning capabilities are yourself.

but I would speculate she is more familiar with her circumstance, needs and demands upon her own resources and body than you are,

So she is in an infinitely superior position to you to make any choices in regard to her pregnant condition than you. Noting, your ignorance to her circumstances, needs, demands and resources.

So if we are to talk about “selfishness”, it is “selfish” of the ignorant the demand tto make decisions over the rights of the informed.

But to comment on the unborn. The unborn exists within and is nurtured by the body of someone else. To deny the occupier of the nurturing body the right of participation in decisions which materially effect the use of her body, is to reduce her status to that of a slave for the development of the embryo / foetus. Such a proposition could only be countenanced from an offensive and immoral perspective.

So you can “speak up” all you want, but on this personal and intimate matter for which you bear no responsibility either causal, moral or material, you just do not have the right to be heard.

Francis – “apostles of the culture of death” I can almost see the foam on your lips as you salivate and drool into your bib and spittle showers some captive audience (probably just the image in the mirror).

I would support the view that in circumstances both late term abortions and PBAs are sometimes unavoidable, sometimes necessary and possibly even elective.

But Francis, regardless of all the spleen venting emotional hyperbole you engender into your post, at the end of the day, you are not the pregnant woman and so your view just does not matter