Philo

Your stories just confirm what I have said all along. Papuans greatly benefit from being part of Indonesia. Native Papuans would've never been able to gain higher education were not for Indonesian govt subsidies and special placement programs which guaranteed places for bright Papuan students in good Indonesian universities. Religious-wise, most native Papuan reverends and Catholic priests received their Christian theological education from seminaries in Central Java. Contrary to what some Australians think, there has been zero effort from Indonesian govt to "Islamice" Papuans, because Indonesia is not an Islamic country.

Indonesia never attempts to take away land from the Papuans, nor did we ever try to force native Papuans from their traditions. In fact, the Indonesian govt subsidise the development and protection of Papuan culture each year so that native traditions is far more vibrant and strong in West Papua than PNG, where the native culture had been destroyed by uncontrolled distribution of guns, drugs, and alcohol. Indonesian govt wisely has put an effective ban on all these destructive elements from entering West Papua.

If any land were needed for transmigration purposes, the native Papuans always receive more than enough compensations. These lands were then transformed into productive ricefields, so that today West Papua is a rice surplus area which is the rice-bowl of Eastern Indonesia and exporter of rice to PNG. I have a friend from Vanimo, PNG, near the Indonesian border. He said almost all the food and sundry products they consumed came from Indonesia. So does all their TV and radio programs, came from Indonesian channels.

http://www.diacritica.com/sobaka/2002/png.html

Indonesia represents progress and advancement for West Papua province, while Papuan separatists has been proven to represent barbarism and backward tribal mentality.

P2BI
selamat datang ke forum ini.
Rupanya saudara merasa kurang senang dengan sikap dan kata2 kami mengenai keadaan di WP itu.
Sebenarnya, walaupun ada berbagai2 kemajuan di sebelah kaum masyarakat, yang paling dibenci oleh penduduk2 asli disitu, ialah kedatangan ramai orang berugama Islam dari luar negri mereka.

Mereka merasa tidak bisa menolong diri terhadap kejadian itu. Mereka tahu juga, bahawa lama kelamaan, penduduk berugama Islam akan naik sedangkan pendirian atau kedudukan dan suara mereka sendiri akan mengurang.

Kami disini, mengingatkan juga keganasan yang dilakukan oleh pihak tentera TNI dan Melitia penyokong Indonesia di Timor Timor. Kami tidak ragu tentang kebenaran cerita itu, sebab kami sudah saksikan semuanya pada waktu ia berlaku.

Kepada saya, kalau Kerajaan Indonesia berbuat yang baik terhadap penduduk asli di WP maka, penduduk itu tidak menjadi marah dan curiga pada Kerajaan itu. Sumber marah mereka yang terbesar adalah sebagai sudah disebut, "Pendatang2 dari luar Negri, yang berugama Islam".

Kalau perkara itu dibaiki, saya rasa marah dan perang kecil itu akan lenyap.

In English, basically I'm saying that if The Indo Government ceases to allow transmigration of large numbers of Muslims from outside WP, the problem will dissappear.

Proud to be Indonesian.Now me old mate, I know you Indonesians like to guild the old lily a bit,but your comments of we good old Ozzies is a bit rich to say the least.Because as you know,Indonesia is a lovely place but it is still third world (is there a fourth world ? )country but I digress. Now your analysis of the World and Indonesias part in it,has more holes in it than the cheap shirts I brought back from Bali.However I must confess using them as polishing rags has given my white holden commodore a magnificent pink hue it looks beautiful.

Now as for the Indonesian military.Look me old china I use to be in the Ozzy Army, in fact I reached the dizzy rank of Sergeant.Now by Ozzy standards it's about middle management but I believe the Indonesian equivalent is some where up around General.I was involved in training Indonesian soldiers,and once you had shown them the correct end of the rifle the bullet came out of they progressed quite well.

Now the Indonesian "Konfrontasi"Lets us just say as well as Timor,any contact with our boys in the sixty's was a complete humiliation for Indonesia.You can tell the other fellows on this forum it was just a few communist insurgents but they threw four Indonesian regiments into that little police action.I suggest a good library here to get a bit of FACTUAL Information would be most benificial.

Indonesia has one of the most endemic corrupt governments in the world,and before I would even believe an Indonesian weather report I would have to be on the ground experiencing it for my self.Please don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining.

Oh and one more think before I get back to my piss up.If you Sir think America will side with Indonesia before Australia in any world crises you are dilusional.And please no burst about spelling or grammer I am having a drink with a few of my x digger mates,who after reading your twaddle are rolling around laughing.

From NYTimes

The arrests and the promise by the Indonesians of a fair trial still leave unanswered who planned the attacks, what the motives were and whether Indonesian soldiers were involved, Mrs. Spier said. To get those answers, she said she had asked President Yudhoyono to allow the F.B.I. to continue in the case and to question the suspects to ensure "a credible investigation." The president "gave his commitment," she said, although the national police chief, Gen. Sutanto, said last week that the F.B.I.'s role was over.

"The police involved in the investigation still believe the military was involved," said an Indonesian investigator who gave The New York Times official transcripts of witness interviews. "But this involves relations between two countries. It will be difficult for the police to dare to say the military was involved."

The evidence of military involvement is largely circumstantial. Mr. Wamang was close to Indonesian military units in Papua, and was paid by the military for trips to Jakarta, the police investigator said.

After his capture, Mr. Wamang told the police he got the bullets from a senior Indonesian soldier, his lawyer, Albert Rumbekwan, said. The F.B.I. said in a report to a Congressional panel that the assailants had used the same type of automatic rifles used by Indonesia's military.

The ambush occurred between military checkpoints that are only five miles apart. The road falls away at almost an 80-degree angle into a mountainous valley, making it almost impossible for the attackers to have gotten into position without the acquiescence of soldiers on the road, the Indonesian police investigator said, a conclusion shared by Mrs. Spier and American investigators.

The soldiers on the road did not respond to the attack for more than 30 minutes, according to Mrs. Spier and the F.B.I. investigation. Soldiers came to the rescue after a Freeport executive, Andrew J. Neale, stumbled across the shooting as he was driving down the road and went to the military post for help. He said he had heard "continuous shooting," an official transcript of his questioning by Indonesian police says

@BOAZ-David:

Tidak pernah ada masalah antara kaum pendatang dan kaum asli, apalagi masalah agama. Perlu anda ketahui, begitu banyak org beragama Islam yg menikah dgn org asli Papua. Edo Kondologit menikah dgn seorang turunan Tionghoa, Jaap Solossa kawin dgn seorang Jawa Islam, Arie Sihasale menikah dgn Nia Zulkarnaen yg Muslim juga. Jadi tidak benar apabila ada masalah antara kaum pendatang dan kaum asli Papua, yg bermasalah hanyalah kaum separatis barbar yg sangat lemah shg tak patut diperhitungkan.

In English, basically there is no problem between transmigrants and inidgenous people. Transmigrants gave native Papuans lots of employment and economic opportunities, they help spread Christianity to the natives and those who were Muslims never force their religion on Papuans, plus there are so much interracial and interreligous intermarriage between native Papuans and other Indonesians (Jaap Solossa married a Javanese Muslim, Edo Kondologit married half-Chinese half-Javanese woman, Ari Sihasale married Nia Zulakarnaen a Eurasian Muslim actress, etc).

The only people who cannot accept people of other religion/race are the backward barbaric Papuan separatists. Indonesia has no reason to care about these wannabe terrorists since:

1) Papuan separatists are so weak they don't merit any attention from Indonesian govt.

2) Papuan separatists are barbaric terrorists. Indonesian govt does not care with what terrorists think.

@antigone:

I think trusting the words of the barbaric Papuan thug Antonius Wamang who had admitted to brutally murdering civilians is a very dumb act. This brutal murderer is just making up all kinds of excuses to cover-up the cruel brutality of the Papuan separatist terrorists. A barbaric murderer like him has zero credibility. FBI and Indonesian police investigation has proven the barbaric bloodthristy-ness of the Papuan separatist criminals.

It is too bad the Indonesian justice system is too kind, allowing such barbaric separatist thug and his lawyers to make all kinds of lies in order to cover-up their brutality. Shame on you for giving the words of such brutal murderer any value, while putting no value at all to the lives of his victims!

@PHILB:

1) You should buy shirts from one of Indonesia's numerous shopping centres, not from some street-side stall who sells cheap Chinese shirts suitable only for beggars. Here's a list of a few shopping malls you can visit:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=281592&page=1

Don't worry, Indonesia has first-class shopping facilities that are far superior than the third (or fourth) rate shopping facilities of Australia.

2) Do they teach you military history at NCO training, or do they only teach this subject to real officers who is actually required to think unlike mere sergeants. You confuse the Malayan Emergency (a domestic Malaysian communist insurgency between 1948-1989) and Konfrontasi, two different conflicts in which Australia plays an insignificant role as the stooge of Britain. I suggest you visit a good library in a nearby university to read-up beneficial factual information.

3) The Konfrontasi was a favour done by Indonesia for the Communist Bloc in support of Malaysian communist insurgents, because the Soviets was kind enough to loan one billion dollars worth of weaponry to Indonesia. However, the local commies were dumb and greedy enough to launch an abortive coup in 1965, so that our military were forced to destroy that party. Subsequently, Konfrontasi (a communist pet project) became irrelevant and abandoned. Konfrontasi has got nothing to do with Australia at all, as your country is just a joke which never has and never will have any significance in Southeast Asia.

BTW, why don't you talk about you so-called "humiliation" to the 200 British, Australian, Gurkha, New Zealander, and Malaysian soldiers killed by Indonesian soldiers during the Konfrontasi?

4) LOL, Indonesia has comfortable deals with US. The giant US mining company Freeport-McMoran has got a 30-years contract to mine copper and gold in Papus province (the biggest gold mine in the world). Freeport is Indonesia's largest taxpayer, and its shareholders included Henry Kissinger and heaps of Democratic and Republican politicians, including President Bush's friends. You are dreaming if you think US will support Australia if this small America-wannabe country try to disturb Indonesia's sovereign territory.

5) Don't engage in binge drinking, it'll cause liver cirrhosis and impotency.