Coach

Of the many posters to this website, R0bert is one of the most thoughful. He clearly gives full consideration to both sides of an argument before posting - suggest you reread his posts. I do not always agree with him, however he is always consistent in his beliefs and tries hard to see other's POV's.

Therefore, to state: "But it is up to you and your strength of character to face up to it instead of taking the cowardly and easy way out."

This is, yet again, a cheap shot and use of emotional blackmail on a poster.

If there is a God, then it is people like R0bert who will find him/her/it for he is not afraid to question, not afraid to reconsider his views and he doesn't take cheap shots at other posters. Not the cowardly and easy way out at all.

What is cowardly and easy is to claim to all who do not hold to your particular brand of religion that they (we) are somehow lacking in character, or risking an eternity in hell.

If there is a hell, I have no doubt it will be crowded with the self righteous, intolerant and dogmatic. Those who choose to live peaceful and helpful lives have nothing to fear regardless of whether they are religious or not.

Martin,

Well done on your post, most non believers tend to think, as i did, that Christians are just fundamentalists without brains trying to convert people for there own agenda, or for money ra ra ra.

I remember simply hearing the name of "Jesus" would make me feel sick, Why? That never happend when i heard the names of any other religious leader, why this one?

The concept of God never left me, i had to take a step of faith, this isn't unusual in the business world, all the motivational books tell you that you need to 'believe it before you see it' so I took the step.
I had to accept Him into my life, God-not Jesus, until He made me aware that He and Jesus Christ were one in the same.

Tough call, but i was definately blind before that, the problem with blindness is...you cant see!

But you see even us writing in this way has people like R0bert thinking, 'there they go again theyre just trying to push theyre religion onto me', cant blame them, i used to think the same way, allways waiting for the catch.

The truth is, i dont know any of the people on this post, cant get in touch with them, would never benefit from theyre conversion, yet, how could i NOT share something that has changed my life so overwhelmingly, how could i not defend what i know to be true (sorry all you reletivists) How can i not tell anyone how good this new found freedom is. How do you explain to someone about freedom when they have never experienced it in thier lives.

You cant tell someone what it's like to have kids until they have them, you cant tell someone what the water feels like until they jump in.

And my heart goes out to people like R0bert and Aziliz who have had an experience of pseudo Christianity or have struggled with different "christian people".

But the reality of The Christ remains, the transformed lives remain and the evidence of a fallen world remain.

coach, pretending to "sum up" by paraphrasing someone else's words is an old, tired and extremely discredited orators trick. It is a dubious practice that speaks of someone who has little faith in their own arguments.

You compound this by using your highly-convenient summary as a lead-in to your own views... "I don’t buy into that... the only plausible explanation to me (still is) that ..."

Straw man. Set up an idea of your own invention, knock it down.

If this were a football game, the ref's whistle would be working overtime and both linesmen would be flagging their hearts out.

And to cap it all, you have the audacity to state "The facts of the reality and existence of God are there"

There, in a nutshell, is the source of your miscommunication. You may have a belief in your head and in your heart that "facts" are available, but it simply isn't true. It is just a belief.

No-one is bagging you for having these beliefs, only for letting them come between you and the observable realities of our lives.

I happen to believe that there are many questions to which we don't know the answers. Your position is that they have all been taken care of by your belief in God, so you don't feel the need to examine the questions any longer.

That's fine, except you can't stop yourself from one final insult.

"But it is up to you and your strength of character to face up to it instead of taking the cowardly and easy way out."

If some of us believe that the questions haven't been adequately answered, is it more or less cowardly to give up asking them? Your choice of insult could, if R0bert were so inclined, be turned against you, as one who has opted not to face up to the questions, but instead has taken the easy way out by adopting a particular belief system.

Someone referred to belief in God because of a FEAR of dying. I dont have a FEAR of dying. If Im wrong in my beliefs as a Christian (which I dont think I am), I will die and enter eternal blackness, having lived a wonderful peace filled life in knowing a God who doesnt exist, but if Im right, I will enter paradise.
Those who refuse to beleive/acknowledge God, they too enter eternal blackness when they die. No big deal. But if theyre wrong, and God does exist, and theyve lived their life rejecting Him, they will die and enter eternal hell. Who has the consequences in this scenario?

It really doesnt matter what you beleive to be truth. Truth is truth, and our opinions dont matter in the slightest when it comes time for our lives to be over. Somthing we can all count on! We can all argue and bicker about the truth, beliefs, religion, God etc etc. There is only one truth.
God has given us all a warning. In the bible. Not a warning to put FEAR into us, but because He loves us and wants none to perish.

"Hitler was a devout christian cos he quoted scripture all the time"? SATAN quoted scripture quite often. Was he a devout christian?

I loved "narnia" by the way. As a good film, not because of any christian themes. I felt moved when aslan went to his death for someone else, cos it reminded me of my position with christ. Other than that. A good movie!

Genesis

First you claim:'theyve lived their life rejecting Him, they will die and enter eternal hell'

Then you claim: 'Truth is truth, and our opinions dont matter in the slightest when it comes time for our lives to be over'

I don't know if there is a god. Nor do I live in fear. I do try to live honestly, because that's the kind of person I am.

So that when I see hypocrisy or even contradictory statements such as yours I am compelled to not only point them out but to use them to explain why (to a non-believer) they are insulting to people who no doubt lead exemplary lives but hold different beliefs.

If your god is so petty as to condemn good decent people purely on the basis of belief, then I want nothing to do with such an immature, childish deity.

If your god welcomes all who have tried the best they can to be the best they are then I return that welcome.

I know I have probably just given the devoutly dogmatic further fuel to denigrate myself and others, however, I am just as valid, just as vital as any christian.

".......Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labours & aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery & broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy. "

The words of the Desiderata are as true for me now as they were when I first read them 35 years ago.

For the complete Desiderata please access

http://www.mountainman.com.au/desidera.html

So GENESIS, you thought you'd have a "bob each way" did you?
What incredible arrogance you religious people display. Only you know the truth.
At least I, as a non-religious person, have the humility to say "I don't know", and I also have the courage not to be brow beaten into saying that I believe in God just to escape some eternal damnation which YOU say would be my fate.
I'm NOT saying that GOD doesn't exist. He may well exist, it's an easy answer as to why the universe exists. Or he may not, and the universe is just some amazing accident. No-one really knows, especially not those who self-righteously claim that they do.
It is very difficult to explain the existence of the universe and it would be great to have this "personal experience" and "conversations" with God, as you people claim to.
Unfortunately, God has never spoken to me.
I'd really like to know just how this "speaking with God" manifests itself. Is it a sound in your ear? Is it just a thought transfer? What?
I'll bet there are a lot of people who will end up in heaven, if it exists, who have had nothing at all to do with any "religion" (of whatever variety) which has been the cause of so much evil in the world. Even the fact that there are many different religions, and sects within those religions, which are so divisive, should tell you something. All these different religions and sects think they are the only ones that "know" the truth- well they can't ALL be right, can they?
There I am getting drawn into a religious conversation, when I know it is utterly useless to discuss it with people such as yourself. It is only your incredible arrogance that moves me to respond.