Rainer, I agree that institutions are quite capable of many of the same flaws as individuals, racism, sexism etc. I to would be interested in examples of current institutional racism in Australia - I think I am willing to see it if it is carefully pointed out to me.

In regard to your comment "For me there is a clear connection between how white Australians are carefully taught not to recognize white privilege and therefor have difficulty recognising racism, both their own and others, institutional, historical and textual."

Could it be that some indiginous Australians are carefully taught to regognise racism whenever they feel that things do not favour them? Perhaps many issues which are a result of other factors are attributed to racism (with a smattering of real racism tossed in to flavor the mix).

An example I saw a some years ago was test by one of the current affairs shows to see if property agents were racist towards aboriginals.

Two individuals were sent out looking for property to rent. One a young whitish businessman type in a suit, the other an older aboriginal artist groomed somewhat differently, some might say quite scruffily. The whitish guy was much more successful in locating properties he might rent whilst the aboriginal did poorly, he was told that no properties were available and a variety of other excuses which were not given to the whitish guy. The conclussion - property agents were racist against aboriginals, it apparently never occured to those doing the segment that grooming and presentation might be factors a property agent might consider when evaluating a potential tenant.

What was billed as racism might well have been something quite different, I would have been much more concerned about the "racism" if the only obvious difference in the test was the racial appearance of the individuals.

R0bert

Rainier,

A good starting point, even if lacking specifics. I tend to ramble. That’s my nature. If you object I’d not label you ramblephobic. I’d look askance and wonder about your manners/customs. :-)

‘…For me there is a clear connection between how white Australians are carefully taught not to recognize white privilege and therefore have difficulty recognising racism, both their own and others, institutional, historical and textual’

I agree. We’re all susceptible to this learning. Such things are learnt mostly in the home and are a part of every culture or race. That leads to that great generalisation that every culture is inherently racist. I think you’d generally agree?

In Aboriginal culture are the lessons similar? The content may be different. I don’t know.

Australians of various ethnic backgrounds learn the lessons of their heritage. Even though I consciously am Australian I still see the lessons of my heritage in my behaviours.

Whites may well be taught not to recognise their privilege although I’d hold that may not be a conscious teaching. Many white Australians I know just like being, their interpretation of, Australian and that often leads to them accepting that their social networks and structures eg schools are for their benefit as well as thinking they are there for the benefit of everyone. I think the racism you allude to is that many non white Australians feel alienated by those networks and structures because they do not take into account the particular culturalisms or the alternate ways of thinking of the non whites. In fact they probably do often exclude or denigrate them, greatly. Because whites are oblivious, you see this as racism. Though we’d differ significantly on whether the teaching and learning is deliberate or osmotic, I think I’ve interpreted your view on the institutional and textual racism correctly? The historical is another matter and probably much more straightforward. It would be to do with the historical literature, arts, legal system, government etc from the time of European settlement/invasion.
I’d like to know if I’m on the right tract generally even though we’d acknowledge significant differences?

Jkenno,

Today was the first time I have ever read your posts. Your posts are "high camp bordering on fluff intersecting piffle."

I've never quoted "the great man". You know that. You want to align "the great man" with me because the Third Reich pinched his "Superman".

Before you post one would hope you would at least think first. I don't have to due to the fact that I am superior. Superior to you at least.

By now you are probably running around the house using crude language.
Calm down.

What really concerns me is that you think you know "the great man". You don't have the mental capacity to even understand the introduction
let alone the philosophy.

If you want to come the intellectual raw prawn I suggest you study up. You're on my "turf" and you ain't makin' it.

I repeat I have never quoted the "great man". Jkenno wants to quote the "great man" but hasn't got a clue what "the great man" is saying.

"I'm for white pride"

Who said that a few forums ago? That's the sort of statement that could lead people to the conclusion that one was perhaps, dare one say it, less than likely to have an open mind? Not judging here, just suggesting there might be some reason for the opposition to play the infamous "race card" against someone down the track.

Boaz_David,

I"m in awe of you but also find you really confusing. We tend to box one another into little compartments we think will fit all occasions and I plead guilty to having done that with you, which is why I find you confusing. I have come to two (probably temporary in your case) conclusions: You don't stick to the same line on every debate because you consider issues in isolation and weigh up arguments on their merit, which is admirable. The second conclusion: You and Ranier probably have a lot more in common than you realise.

Please forgive me for the assumptions here, since I don't know either of you outside of these forums (or fora if you like to show off) but it seems to me that both of you are primarily concerned with the welfare of humanity first but from different perspectives.

Look back at debates you've had over the last few months and you might see what I mean. Ranier tends to approach things from a race perspective (understandable)and you tend to approach from a cultural perspective (also understandable. But at the end of the day your shared concerns are the same.

I don't mean to pry or anthing, since you seem to be more familiar with one another than I am with either of you.

If I'm being excessively polite it's because I think that the excessive rudeness that turns up over these issues tends to prevent people from objectively considering one another's points of view. How can that help solve our problems?

United we stand, divided we fall. What is more important there, the unity/division or who we're talking about when we say "we"?

chainsmoker,

"I'm for white pride". Why not.

Some Afro-American Bob Marley lookalike says "black is beautiful" and everyone agrees(not me).

If there are no people proud of being white well then eventually there are no whites. The eradication of the white race is not going to happen. Sorry to all non-whites.

This is not an exercise in hate. It's about the truth.

Nick Griffin spoke the truth and he ends up in court.

I'm not subtle but the enemy is.

Friedrich,

I didn't mean to insult you, just to point out how some others might interpret everything you say on any subject from that point of view. I don't, and can't, know whether that does colour every comment you make. I daresay you have opinions about all sorts of things that don't involve race. I just meant to point out that some may not listen to anything you have to say because that part of your views is how they interpret what you have to say about anything. If you said something about the best way to grow tomatoes some people would ignore you because of the white pride comment. That's all.

As far as the white/black pride thing goes, I can understand both sides wanting to protect themselves when they feel threatened. I'm more interested in why some feel threatened and I don't. Personally, I think that industrial stuff like Vegemite production going overseas is more of a threat to the Australian way of life than the number or type of people we import. The bottom line is that money matters more than people whatever colour they are, and that's what I find most offensive.

Kind regards