Steel I agree with much of what you write, but I think that the Islamic world has alot of catching up to do. Xtians preach the Jesus loves you story, so can't really burn people at the stake for heresy anymore, like the Catholics used to.

Islam still has the problem that its a political religion, yet when people challenge the belief, their heads can be removed for
blasphemy etc. Thats the danger of having religion and politics
intertwined.

Thats why the only solution that I see is to keep religion as a lifestyle choice and no more. People should have freedom of religion
but also freedom from religion. Once you mix religion and politics,
intolerant religious leaders want to take over and they do in many countries.

Get out of Hobart mate,

It is doing your head in.

I disagree entirely. perhaps in Hobart things are different.

If that was a fishing expidition you have got plenty of bites.

Are you serious?

Sorry Greg,

This article (unlike your other article on Nguyen Tuong Van at http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=3966) doesn't add much of value to the debate IMHO.

There may be a way forward out of this terrible rut that Australia finds itself in today, but it won't be found by unthinkingly repeating the same politically correct claptrap that has paralysed our thinking for the last 25 years at least.

We need to start thinking in a slightly more sophisticated way, and to acknowledge that the way many of the rioters at Cronulla have expressed their grievances in racist terms is an outcome of the uncontrolled social experiment of having so many more people crowded into cities in recent years, evidently for no better reason than to give to property speculators, unearned windfall profits at the expense of poor people both here and overseas, as I have also written here:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=3954#24278

Could I commend to site visitors, an excellent, but far from politicallally correct contribution to the debate regarding the previous racially motiviated riots at Cronulla on John Quiggin's Blog at :

http://johnquiggin.com/index.php/archives/2005/12/14/after-the-riots/#comment-39413

It begins :

"I don’t know if I am right about this, but here is my impression about the events in Cronulla and the way they have been reported. It seems so difficult to talk about them. I would be interested to know if anyone else shares my perceptions, could develop them or could make me see things more clearly.

"When I read about the riots in Cronulla, I feel as if we are looking at the results of a cynical manipulation of naivety.

"The cynicism is in those who are driving and facilitating population boosting via high immigration. They have focused benefits to gain from creating a demand for land and the products of the industries upstream and downstream of the housing industry. Secondary to this is the whole industry of immigrationism and multiculturalism."

"The naivety is in the attitudes of well-meaning ideologues ..."

Australia not a racist country? Even John Howard is stretching his renowned mendacity on this one.

Let me tell you about a little incident I witnessed at a place called Gove in the very early seventies. I had gone there during my university vacation to take up a well paying job, cleaning toilets. At that time the local blacks were banned from buying booze from the subsidised workers' bars. They had to buy it from the workers on the black market, if you get my drift.

Just before Christmas a black guy had been caught by the white workers allegedly stealing booze. The lads took him down to the Wallaby Beach wet canteen, strung him up on the cross bars and gave him a public flogging.

The other blackfellows decided to return the lesson. The wet canteen drinkers were disturbed to find a large proportion of the local tribe attacking the camp with spears and clubs. The brawl which followed only ended when the coppers announced that all bars would close indefinitely.

Then there were a few more days of quiet again.

But a few days later, the tribe caught up with the head blackmarketeer as he was making his way home to his donga (barrack). The clubs they used on him left him a vegetable.

That's when the members of the Northern Australian Workers Union called a general strike. I remember one bloke called George saying at the union meeting:

"We should sort out the coons like they did in Tasmania!"

Jesus, I thought, he's talking extermination. But not quite so.

"We should march shoulder to shoulder across the peninsula, and kick out any coons we find. Then we should build a big bloody electric fence!"
"Good idea George," said one of his mates," but the coons have got boats, mate!" "They can sail around any fence we build!"

That was when they decided on a curfew enforced by vigilantes.

Australia is not a racist country? Where have you been living?

If it was a troll, Greg, it was a bloody good one!

The problem with many of the responses is that they cannot accept that someone can love the country they live in, but also have a clear understanding of its flaws and shortcomings. A little like loving your kids - they may not be perfect, but you love them to death anyway.

It is not necessary to hate yourself for feeling this way either - every parent does it. In the same way, those who accuse you variously of self-hatred, or hatred of Australia, have missed the mark entirely.

It is a strange attitude, where critical analysis cannot, in some people's eyes, exist outside an emotional, "with us or agin' us" frame of mind.

Sad, really.

Ro and Big Fish illustrate some of the attitudes and myths which lead to the accusation that Australia is racist.

Ro claims “ a Canadian legislature was forced to knock down a bizarre but well orchestrated attempt to enshrine sharia law in Canada”.

I was in Canada, in Ontario, in July this year. These are the facts.
For 12 years or so, in one province (Ontario) it was possible for Muslims and Jews and Christians and any faith to settle disputes according to their beliefs, if both partners agreed. It is no longer.

Ontario (not the whole of Canada) has an Arbitration Act, introduced 14 years ago for consenting 'believing' couples to voluntarily use religion to settle their family disputes. This move, it was hoped, would help take some pressure off the courts. Subsequently, a few Jewish, Christian and Muslim couples used religious arbitration to settle disputes. Note it was open to all religions and its application was strictly limited (mainly family / marital disputes). Subsequently (post 9/11), a judge in Ontario specifically removed this right from Muslims. ( i.e. it was still open to other religions). This inconsistency was resolved in September this year, when, Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty said that he will move to ban all faith-based arbitration.

And as for Big Fish’s sarcastic “Australia is racist because all detaineed “refugees” are genuine”. Again, nobody has ever claimed all asylum seekers are genuine refugees. The Government’s own figures put it at about 80% (that's right, 8 out of 10). So we detain 100% for long periods, because 1 in 5 might be non-genuine. Last time I checked, there had been virtually no asylum seekers rejected on the basis of being security risk. I think any smart terrorist would be well funded enough to come by air, rather than leaky boat.

Australia racist? Ro and Big Fish are good examples which support Greg Barnes’argument.