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The Forum > Article Comments > Australia - a racist backwater > Comments

Australia - a racist backwater : Comments

By Greg Barns, published 22/12/2005

Greg Barns argues Australians have succumbed to materialism, fear, racism and xenophobia.

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I've seen troll posts here before, but troll articles?
Posted by HarryC, Thursday, 22 December 2005 10:27:53 AM
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This one should be fun: just when I am getting ready for a Christmas break Barnesy lobs this hand grenade - he must be bristling for preselection some where.

Well in for a penny in for a pound I say:

Much of what he says is true in particular - but even adding all those individual sins together, as grave as they may be, does not a racist backwater or pigsty make.

My own bias warms to his interpretation of opportuniites lost under this current regime and in the presence of a lame duck opposition - but his over alll assesment is far too gloomy.

His opponents will say similar things about our future but for different reasons but I am a bit more optimistic in our capacity to move forward - history is a long time in the making - the stench from the Sydney beaches and those other dillemas he refers to will be resolved with the exercising of those institutions that have got us this far. He really has underestimated our capacity to reason.

Now is certainly not the time to despair in the manner Barnesy has - he should take a little holiday - I'd recommend Trial Harbour on Tassies West Coast -
Posted by sneekeepete, Thursday, 22 December 2005 10:31:26 AM
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I never knew a person could get such obvious morbid pleasure from self loathing and degredation of his country...
Since Greg has made comparisons with the region for a second lets talk shop. Malaysia for example still harbours a seething racism just under the surface and directed at the ethnic Chinese minority. Indonesia has perpetuated a policy of forcing ethinic/religious minorities to assimilate (often facilitated by the military). The Japanese still refuse to even recognise that the atrocities they committed during the war were motivated by ethnocentic attitudes that still prevail in there society today. Then there is China and the Tibetan issue. Need I go on?
But since you think Asia is such a shining example of cultural tolerance Greg maybe you should move there. At least as an Australian you won't be laughed at anymore-the Howard government has finally engaged Asia on EQUAL terms and repealled the policies of appeasement pursued by Keating. As for Mal Fraser...jeez he did well with Zimbabwe didn't he!? But thats another issue.
Posted by wre, Thursday, 22 December 2005 10:44:45 AM
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An intersting turn of events in the incident in the cricket in Perth, where South African players were called "Kaffirs" by some sections of the crowd. I lived in Zimbabwe for several years in the 80's and visited apartheid South Africa a number of times. As anyone from that part of the world knows, "Kaffir" is an extreme form of abuse for a black person, a term widely used in the apartheid era.

Perth has a lot of white migrants from South Africa, and it seems SOME of them now feel it is ok to come out with their old racist behaviour.

I think this is symptomatic of the effect of the Howard "dog whistling". His mixed messages about racism. There is now a feeling amongst those people that old racist attitudes are acceptable, and they are now resurfacing. Strong leadership could give the message that people of all races need to re-examine and ditch any old racist attitudes. Howard has failed to give this leadership and the consequences can now be seen. He hasn't necessarily caused the racism that is present in various sections, but he has exploited it, and made it almost acceptable to voice those attitudes. Australia is a much poorer place for it, compared to 10 years ago.

I've met a lot of racists in my time in places like the old South Africa and Zimbabwe, and not one of them ever recognised their racism. Their common refrain was "I'm not racist, but ......."
Posted by AMSADL, Thursday, 22 December 2005 10:46:38 AM
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Yes I agree totally that Australia is so racist because

A. We banned western music because it is corrupting influence. Opps sorry Iran
B. Beheaded Christian Girls…Nope sorry somewhere in Asia
C. Religious strife where murder and bombs against authority used…Opps sorry again that’s southern Thailand.
D. We force a particular race from farms and in turn enable famine to fester – Opps sorry somewhere in Africa.
E. Have whole tribes fight each other and cause 100’s of thousands of horrible deaths chopping and slaying and famine and a refugee crisis – opps sorry that’s Africa again.
F. Detain millions in death camps – opps sorry that is other government “differences of opinion”
G. Deny people ability to practice their religion or customs with out fear of reprisals
H. Contribute to Iraqis freedom – opps sorry cannot count that even if Iraqis want it because “the natives” cannot appreciate democracy (of course that’s not a racist attitude).
I. Has the third largest % of foreign population below NZ and Luxemborg. Obviously everybody must hate coming here. All these racist or we would be 1st Damn it.!!
J. Is 12th most donor per capita (Canada is 13th source - nationmaster.com) the government must really hate doing that. (maybe trying to keep everyone away). And that materialist attitude that allows a country to donate, well it must be a very very bad thing.
K. Australia is racist because all detaineed “refugees” are genuine (What was that name of the Pakistani opps sorry Afghan, family again?) and so we must let everyone in no questions asked. Do not worry if one just happens to be up to no good and potentially kill – We will still all feel better.

Obviously I could source more points about Australia is racist but I think I added to the proof.
Posted by The Big Fish, Thursday, 22 December 2005 11:17:48 AM
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My my...what a spiteful article! Dare I say, Greg Barns is viciously intolerant of those who don't share his views.

Racism and xenophobia, in the context Greg Barns uses, appears to be more complimentary than insulting. Good 'ol namecalling.

What exactly do we fear? Well I fear Greg Barns!

The protest rally in Sydney has done wonders for this country in that it has exposed the Aussie bashers among us. Any pride in being 'white' is ridiculed and demonised. Whereas Black pride, arab pride, asian pride (oh and gay pride) is heralded and praised. It is a complete waste of time trying to please the people who despise you.

Face it mate, Aussie is predominately a white country. A sort of a imaginary multicultural place with a diverse, cherry picked ethnic minority. Cheers to proud whites everywhere, boo to self loathing whites everywhere.
Posted by davo, Thursday, 22 December 2005 11:21:19 AM
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"Look at me, look at me. I didn't get enough of a reaction telling people they were dolts for being curious about Princess Mary's baby so now I will call them all backwater racists living in a pigsty."

There are some 200 countries in the world and Australia would be in the top five when it came to tolerance of different races and cultures. Maybe in the top two.

Certainly not perfect by any means, but in comparison very good.

Have you ever thought Greg that the reason the riots at Cronulla were such big news were because something like this had not happened for a long time. And even then, no-one was severely injured, let alone killed.

Race hate crimes much worse heppen in all parts of the world every day, with death and serious injuries the results. Why not just write an article that the Earth is a racist backwater inhabited by pigs who call themselves humans (the Greens would endorse you there).

And finally, you are forgetting something about people with racist views. A prejudice against (or for, for that matter) a person on the basis of race is not racist unless that person acts on it. There is no law against thinking a certain way, but turn those thoughts to action and you are in trouble. Very few people hold deep seated prejudices and fewer still act on them.

My grandfather served in World War II and until he died he despised Japanese people. Never acted on it though and no-one got hurt.

And many people on this forum would not consider it cowardly if you moved to Canada. You aren't actually achieving much here anyway except slagging off at ordinary, hard-working Australians.

t.u.s
Posted by the usual suspect, Thursday, 22 December 2005 11:37:15 AM
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Yes Greg, Australia is a backwater full of racists unwilling to do better. And yes it was John Howard decked out in giggle hat, zinc cream, thongs and board shorts who stirred up all that hatred at Cronulla. And yes again Greg, we were too quick to sequester Whitlam, Fraser, Hawke and Keating when we placed them in our national pantheon. Let's bring them back; I'm sure Zimbabwe is looking for an eminent person to lead it out of its inspissated gloom; and we long for those 18% interest rates.

A Pol Pot style 're-education camp' needs to be assembled to deal with Australians who turned their backs on Keating.

And how dare the media depart from the song sheet. It is shameful to give people facts. Things were so much better when the NSW government told us that crime had almost disappeared. Sure, fare evasion, illegally using a hose to water the garden and other serious crimes have shown a slight increase but petty crime like using a handgun, ATM theft and rape are trending down.

Greg, you're so right when you say that Australia has become a pigsty (there's that Keating connection again). If I had my way avaricious Australians (that's all of them) would be taken to their place of work in a submissive coffle. Beatings and re-education for the wayward would be in order but not too severely. After all we do want them to keep sending money to prop up Indonesia, PNG, the Solomon Islands etc. They also serve a purpose when they send money to lessen the suffering of those hit by catastrophe but I don't think they deserve too much credit. I find it better to hector and lecture them without giving any praise. And lets abolish all political parties except those approved by you.

Greg, I nodded so hard in agreeing with you that my head nearly departed company with my neck.
Posted by Sage, Thursday, 22 December 2005 11:47:57 AM
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HarryC “troll article” Spot on

Sneekepete a “Handgrenade”? hardly. More a penny banger which fizzed instead of banging.

wre Barnes demonstrating “self-loathing” Spot on.

AMSADL “Kaffir”, I believe, basically translates to “godless” or “godless people”.

I spent a short while in Zimbabwe. Mugabe has produced his own form of tribal racism and ordinary Zimbabwians (?) are suffering far more than they did under Ian Smith and the “white masters”. From what I hear, South Africa under the ANC, is going down the same road.

I mentioned in another post the notion of “racism” is like suggesting people are short or tall. Everyone has a height and everyone is “racist” to some degree and every nation can be nominally measured on a comparative scale.

My personal rating would suggest where 0 is total tolerance and 10 a fascist xenophobic regime.

Western Europe 4 (average pushed up by France)
Eastern Europe 7
North Americas 3
Southern Americas 6
Eastern Asia 6
Western Asia & Middle East 8
North Korea 9
Australia 2

Why is Australia only 2 – well – Australia has built itself on accepting people from all cultures overseas and continues to do so whereas many countries have not. USA and Canada are, likewise, built on “immigration” (although both have problems dealing with integration on a scale unheard of in Australia)

I might be a little skewed one way or another and am happy to debate the rankings as a serious issue.

Certainly any debate on that basis (above) will be more beneficial than pretending the likes of Barnes, with his mealy mouthed utterances, his condemnation of Mr Howard and adulation of Keating (who kow-towed to SE Asians in suits made in Paris, exulted everything French and publicly decried Australian manufactures) has anything to offer by way of insight or significance at any level.

This flea-bit piece of twisted drivel does not merit publishing. It represents a sad of example of a malignant irrelevance, who whines and carps on about his fellow Australians in disparaging manner simply because

He has no manners and knows no better
Posted by Col Rouge, Thursday, 22 December 2005 11:53:11 AM
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The usual racist extreme right wing are in early I see, we should not be proud to be white, we should be proud to be Australian. A chinese arrived in this country on the first fleet, aboriginals were here 80,000 years before that. I don't know about you redneck ratbags, but if I buy something it immediately becomes mine, after 80,000 years I'd say this was aboriginal land, and since we haven't yet paid for it, still is. Re the anniversiry of the High Court Marbo decision today. As for contempory Australia, Australians have now historic roots in all continents of the world, so when the word Australian is mentioned, it is an inclusive word covering many cultures rolled into one. Must go, and buy my kebab for lunch, and enjoy my Australian culture, see ya...
Posted by SHONGA, Thursday, 22 December 2005 12:13:21 PM
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Greg Begins:
"Australia is a backwater, a racist and inward-looking country that turns its back on adventure and the opportunity to do better."
Great, no argument from me. What of it?
Posted by GlenWriter, Thursday, 22 December 2005 12:19:15 PM
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DEFENDANT: Barns, Greg

CHARGES: Treachery, Racism, Xenophobia, Deception, Perverting Truth and Natural Justice Intellectual Ignorance. Naivity.

The 1st count: TREACHERY.

Evidence. “Australia is a backwater, a racist and inward-looking country”.

of course by ‘racist’ you mean all ethnic segments of the community....right ?

Hating your country is treachery in my opinion.

The 2nd count RACISM against people of Anglo/Celtic background

Clearly hates white people. Loathes them, Despises them. Acts on this loathing, by writing disparaging articles against their legitimate right to protect their culture.

The 3rd count. XENOPHOBIA against people of Anglo/celtic background.

Describes Pauline Hansons call for ‘All Australians to be treated equally” as “inane and stupid rhetoric about Aboriginal Australians” Clearly he is paranoid about equality of races.
Describes her call for equality as ‘Racist Attacks’ This is irrational and clearly ‘white hating’.

The 4th count. DECEPTION of all Australians.

Mentions “racist thugs now taking it upon themselves to beat up anyone who looks as if they are from the Middle East” BUT fails to condemn or even mention the CONVOY of foot soldiers from Lakemba who invaded Cronulla /Maroubra smashing everything in sight and planned BEFORE the ONE ‘single’ riot.

The 5th Count: PERVERTING TRUTH and Natural Justice in a manner detrimental to the Anglo/Celts of Australia.

Blames Conservatism and Shock Jocks for promoting a “myth” about Arab Australians being different and somehow less Australian than the rest of us.
Yet, a Muslim Counsellor from Lakemba when interviewed on national TV about the attitude of young Lebanese Muslims stated “They think they are SUPERIOR to skips and they HATE the West”

The 6th Count INTELLECTUAL IGNORANCE and NAIVITY

Fails to recognize the most fundamental aspect of human motivation in “Collective Behavior” as being present in ALL subcultures, but recognizes it most intensely as an outstanding feature in the predominant culture of Anglos.

Greg Barns..SHAME.... I pity your employer....if u have one.

and yes... I am attacking Greg Barns personally, not just his views, in the light of his statements which are a direct threat to me, my family and my race.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Thursday, 22 December 2005 12:21:49 PM
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Yeah right....thats why it was recently announced thats 25% of Aussies are actually born overseas. When you factor in 2nd and 3rd generation there must be only 5-6 million or less like me whose ancestry in this country stems back to the 1860s and beyond...
Posted by magic jess, Thursday, 22 December 2005 12:30:57 PM
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The problem with arguing whether or not we are generally a racist people/nation is that it is always going to be based on subjective opinion and would be an unending debate that goes around and around without conclusion. It is one of those things that when you are inside or part of something it's very difficult to make an objective assessment of it. You really have to stand on the outside and look back in.
That John Howard doesn't believe there is underlying racism in Australia and that Greg Barns and 75% of Age pollees do believe there is underlying racism really has no bearing on the facts of the matter.
It would be much more interesting and enlightening to find out whether people from other countries around the world view us as racist or not. Or maybe some sort of national Tolerance/Intolerance Survey that gives an unbiased snapshot of Australians feelings about other races and religions. That would be much more telling of how racist or not we are rather than arbitrary opinion polls and debates.
Posted by Donnie, Thursday, 22 December 2005 12:32:44 PM
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So what many of you are saying is that two wrongs make a right, or that just because there are some other countries more racist than Australia, that we are ok.

Col Rouge, what are you saying? Even if your definition of the word "Kaffir" is correct, are you suggesting that it is not a term of abuse?

Here's a dictionary definition for you:
-
Kaf·fir also Kaf·ir
n., pl. Kaffir or -firs also Kafir or -irs.
Offensive.
A Xhosa.
often kaffir Used especially in southern Africa as a disparaging term for a Black person.
-
I agree that Mugabe is a disaster - I never suggested he wasn't. As usual you are ranting up the wrong tree.

As for Australia being a great aid donor. Pull the other one. We contribute .25% of GNP to foreign aid! It has fallen in real terms under Howard and is nowhere near the commitment made by Australia in 1970 to commit .7% of GDP to aid. Much of it is 'tied' and so is given to Australian firms as a form of corporate welfare or as a tool of foreign policy, rather than being true aid.
Posted by AMSADL, Thursday, 22 December 2005 12:36:15 PM
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Hmm Shonga - you talk about Aboriginal land and in a way it is in some areas and it WAS in others. No one the world over returns land -only the Australians and New Zealanders. I don't ever expect to get any land back in from the English who stole it from my Cornish and Welsh forbears. I even TRIED to stay in the UK back in 2003 and was kicked out. So I always laugh when i hear people say - "this is aboiginal land - you should go back to England" even though I am edscended from Convict SLAVES and REFUGEES.
Posted by magic jess, Thursday, 22 December 2005 12:40:53 PM
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I tend to go with Sneek on this one. The country’s attitude towards non-Anglo-Celtic people has sunk under Howard it's not yet anywhere near sty-level. And many of us have become more inward-looking and less adventurous and more narrow-minded, but there are still many amongst us who have not. Sort reminds me of the Australia of my youth in the last years of the Menzies era, when Donald Horne wrote “The Lucky Country” and sparked off a wonderful fire that helped us to grow up fast. We can snap out of the regression of the last few years. Pity about Greg Barnes though. If only he could take a more Hornesque approach...
Posted by Crabby, Thursday, 22 December 2005 12:48:29 PM
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AMSADL - But COMPARED to other donor countries Australia does well. Of course I hope you start complaining about the 180 or so countries that do less...

As to the author of the article. I think the response we are seeing comfirm this man should not be allowed to post to OLO again. Sure you might say he is offering an opinion. But opinion MUST be based on logic reasoning and not misleading. If I say that clouds are made of sugar when clearly they are not that is not an opinion, that is crap. Is this considered censorship. No because there is no basis on fact or logic reasoning.

So Greg in the words of Gollum, Go AWAY and neVer come back.
Posted by The Big Fish, Thursday, 22 December 2005 12:57:05 PM
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So appropriate, Big Fish, that you use the words of Gollum.
Posted by anomie, Thursday, 22 December 2005 1:06:32 PM
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Thanks for calling Australia a pigsty, Mr Barns, its says a great deal more about you than it does about this great southern land of ours.

Now that so many similar and ill-considered words have already been written on this issue, why not produce a intelligently positive, reconciliatory article?

What do you seek to achieve exactly? More unhappy words may make you feel a lot better because you've found a chance to vent your spleen for some reason (were you there?). Now that the police have done the right thing and come down like a ton of bricks on those juveniles (of whatever age) amongst us and the suburbs in which they live, all of us, you included, has a little bit of thoughtful work to do. Getting angry or spiteful, as we saw on the beach at cronulla or in your article, does not help any situation so I would ask, why aren't YOU helping the situation?

Just as one example, why not call loudly for Australians of Jewish and Muslim faiths in Australia to get together regularly and privately from now on to compare efforts to deal with that tragically pathetic yet incredibly tiny bunch of ignoramuses that we loftily refer to as "supremacists".

Two articles of interest today - a most intelligent summary from the Pakistan Daily Times (http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2005\12\22\story_22-12-2005_pg3_2) and a letter in response to one-eyed nasty articles much like yours in The Jakarta Post (Opinion writers, ignorance and riots - http://www.thejakartapost.com/onlineletters.asp)
Posted by Ro, Thursday, 22 December 2005 1:07:59 PM
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there's no point even trying to engage greg in any kind of rational debate, since he clearly has his mind made up and that's that.. there's no rational thinking here, just selective and distorted information, with the extra ugly bits highlighted..

he's so full of vitreol, he doesn't even realise he's everything he claims to hate - dogmatic, stubborn and pejudiced..

how about working towards unity, greg? how about being a little constructive instead of just telling white australians they're racists and telling us how other countries do it better than us..? we're not stupid, we know it's not true.. we know who we are and we know how we feel about the world - we don't care about colour - how can we hate other australians when we know they are our brothers?

your political biases have completely coloured your worldview, you've bought every line that's been fed to you and you just regurgitated it in this astoundingly offensive outpouring of selective garbage..

love canada greg? go there.. you seem to be the only one that can't handle australia and the fact that skips still have a sense of pride in themselves.. and you seem to be the only one still trying to drive a wedge between anglos and everyone else..

how about a vitreolic article about a country and ethnic group that really deserves it? how about a good, long look in the mirror?
Posted by jboywonder, Thursday, 22 December 2005 1:22:45 PM
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You say times are tough
We’ve got the best of both worlds here
Things are rough
We’ve got the best of both worlds here
Times are tough
We’ve got the best of both worlds

The real world is not as calm as it appears to be from here
The old world is not as safe with the new world closing in
The great south land can be as great as the one it could have been
The one it could have been

The real world is not as calm as it appears to be from here
The small world is not as strong and the testing ground is near
The old world is not as strong as the one we could have seen
The great south land can be as great as the one it could have been
The one it could have been

We’ve got the best of both worlds
Posted by its not easy being, Thursday, 22 December 2005 1:32:25 PM
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About time someone had the courage to articulate what is really happening in this country. For the first time in the past two decades race relations in this country are rolling backwards. There is a complete vaccuum of leadership, in fact what we are seeing is a government that actively fans the flames of xenophobic apprehension to justify tough policy lines on a number of issues. Scapegoating, race riots and discordant civil society are the result. In a multi-ethnic society such as hours such a policy line is grossly irresponsible and negligent. It is sickening to see racism actively encouraged at the highest level of government and media in recent times ( headscarves an 'act of defiance', schapelle's imprisonment about indonesians out to get white women? alert not alarmed?). Just because it is implicit does not make it any less powerful.

Of course there is underlying fear of difference and social change in our society. This only gets turned into racism when you have a compassionless opportunist like John Howard as your Prime Minister.
Posted by monikasar, Thursday, 22 December 2005 1:35:24 PM
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I think what Greg is missing is that the feeling of racism is mainly just in the media. Politics has closed for the summer and a convenient brawl at Cronulla has given the media something to chase. Something for the many bored readers and writers to opine wildy about. If the media beats it up then it will also stir feelings in people that are best left unstirred. Well done Alan Jones.

There is racism in Australia and it is not all one way either. For every racist remark or action taken by one group there is an equal and opposite reaction from the other side. And so it goes, on and on, just like the Crusades which Muslims are still fighting. As are Christians.

The apologies of the politically correct turn my stomach as they assume racism where frequently none is actually intended. The race to ignore the words Christmas and Merry for example are not standards demanded by non Christians. They are self imposed standards raised as a white flag in case someone should be offended.

Racism is a well used tool for politicians and political parties and it is John Howard alone who has raised this problem to the level is is. Anything for a vote really. Labor have sat on their hands and agreed with him in general so they too are responsible even if they didn't play the card first.

On the other hand Labor governments have had their turn in office, both federally and State/territory wise and yet the aborigines living standards and chance at equality is really no different than 200 years ago. This is where the really entrenched racism is, against our first settlers.

You will hear and see people speaking on behalf of the more recent ethnic groups to move to Australia in bulk but they pay no heed to the aboriginals as that problem has been "dealt with". Well, Tasmania tried didn't they?
Posted by RobbyH, Thursday, 22 December 2005 1:42:10 PM
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Ah Monika it was only a matter of time until you emerged to "Johnny bash" again....

I think Australians are making it clear both on this forum and in their support of Howard that they are sick of being told what "is really happening in Australia" by people like Barns and even yourself...

Comparing Australia to other countries not only provides perspective but it also allows objective discussion of how other countries set there racial/ religious/ cultural standards. If Australians want to disagree with some of those standards and be proud of who we are as a nation they have every right to do so.

As JH said "we are who we are...apologising for our heritage is not the way to make minorities feel welcome."
Posted by wre, Thursday, 22 December 2005 1:48:52 PM
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These articles are going from bad to worse to pathetic. I ask again, is there any editorial policy here or do you just print any dribble that gets sent in?
Posted by Yobbo, Thursday, 22 December 2005 1:49:41 PM
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And regarding what is happening in "fair world" Canada.

Mr Barns says .... "Why can't Australia be more like Canada, a nation that embraces civil rights and tolerance, with political leaders who stand up to racism and nastiness; a nation that sees its role in the world as an independent nation and which is not frightened to stand up and be counted in the global fight for a fairer world"

This year as you probably know, a Canadian legislature was forced to knock down a bizarre but well orchestrated attempt to enshrine sharia law in Canada.

Only this month, an Islamist "Canadian" candidate was selected in the Canadian "backwater " of Mississauga and he is reported to have said ..."This is a victory for Islam! Islam won! Islam Won!" He went on to praise how "Islamic power is extending into Canadian politics". http://canadiancoalition.com/forum/messages/12071.shtml

Canadian responses
http://canadiancoalition.com/AlghabraOmar/AlghabraOmarVictoryForIslam.html
Posted by Ro, Thursday, 22 December 2005 2:00:43 PM
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barnsey.......just another 'hate howard' cheerleader having a bad hair day.

these morbid sad sacks are so predictable:

*howard is the new adolf hitler....check
*howard is eeevil....check
*he drinks the blood of freshly squeezed refugee kiddies....check
*australia is a country full of racist rednecks.....check
*we have a terrible reputation overseas....check
*we should hang our heads in shame and say sorry to everyone....check
*our treatment of the natives was genocide.....check
*if anything bad happens (tsunami, riots, climate change, famine, pestilence) just twist things around and blame howard.....check

i swear these left wingers have a check list they go thru no matter what the issue and in the end it's always johnnie howard's fault.
Posted by vinny, Thursday, 22 December 2005 2:02:35 PM
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'Johnny bash again'?

What are you talking about?
Posted by monikasar, Thursday, 22 December 2005 2:09:52 PM
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From the Australian Governments website:-

Australian citizens' commitment to Australia

As an Australian citizen, you are a formal member of the Australian community. You make a commitment to Australia and to the values and principles that underpin Australia's democracy and its public institutions.

In turn, you are expected to:

* Accept the basic structures and principles of Australian society
* Observe the rule of law, tolerance, equality of opportunity, Parliamentary democracy, freedom of speech and religion, English as the national language, and equality of the races and sexes
* Acknowledge that expressing your own culture and beliefs means that you also have the responsibility to accept the right of others to express their views and values.

Do we, as Australian Citizens be really expected to expect any less?
Posted by Kekenidika, Thursday, 22 December 2005 2:23:22 PM
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mmm...lots of defensive posts here. Its good to see so many who don't want to be labelled racist or don't want to Australia to be known as a racist nation. Now ...if we could only get these same posters to agree that the racism that does exist in this country is not acceptable we would be on the right track....this would be much more honest and balanced approach than complete denial that it exists at all.
Posted by Rainier, Thursday, 22 December 2005 2:26:51 PM
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I would recommend that Greg Barnes apply for the posts of being in charge of the Australian media and the ABC. They have a cultural cringe and loathing of Australians so he would not feel out of place.
What a pity he was not around in the '70's and '80's, that was when the media and the academics really decided that this country was of such poor quality that the only way to save it was to let it be overrun from outstanding humane nations like Lebanon, Iraq, Iran , various sections of Africa and the many Pacific superior islands. Pity that Robert Mugabe has not been enlisted to run as PM, he would have shown us a thing or two.
I would also recommend that we stop being so selfish and give Greg some encouragement to migrate elsewhere to a more pleasant land. Preferably a Muslim one. The Ganjaweed would surely welcome his ideas on how to runa country. I'll donate to the price of a one way ticket.
Posted by mickijo, Thursday, 22 December 2005 2:53:39 PM
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Monika, please don't ask wre difficult questions like that, untill she has had her medication. She will get back to you, she may be on her home planet of Zircon at the moment, but will return to Earth presently. Have a nice day....
Posted by SHONGA, Thursday, 22 December 2005 2:56:56 PM
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Dear all,

It’s Christmas the season of sharing and good will. Time to reach out to those less fortunate and catch up with friends and family.

So if you are friends or family of Greg Barnes he seems a little down at the moment.
Maybe try and make the extra effort to catch up and cheer him up, maybe take a fruit mince pie or some tinsel. See if you can get him out of his office maybe get some fresh air or a coffee.

Exercise can be mood booster, I suggest taking him for a stroll up the Truganini Track probably not far from his home. The view from the top of Mt. Nelson is great and a nice reminder of how lucky we are to live in this country. There probably is a BBQ up the top why not make a day of it.

The thing is I’m just not prepared to accept the Australia is racist backwater Greg. If you do go out for last minute shopping on Saturday at Salamanca Market I think you think you will find Australians of all backgrounds getting along just fine.

Australian immigration levels are presently very high and very few people are jamming the airways saying it needs to be reduced. After 9/11 and the Bali bombings you would think the slack jawed white supremacists would have a better chance of spreading the anti immigration message but this is not the case. I’m not saying everything is fine but in general things are better here than most places.

However one thing I have to concede is we are becoming less tolerant, I think Society has become far less inclined to tolerate Racists, Homophobes and Bigotry.

Seasons greetings Greg and if all your friends are busy I’ll make time for a walk
It is Christmas time after all
Posted by jimbo, Thursday, 22 December 2005 3:20:25 PM
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So, Barns hates the entire electorate now because it rid itself of politicians making decisions without democratic consultation? Not quite. It’s only the disgusting, racist white Australians he hates. He’s quite happy with the Muslims, Aborigines and Asians. They can do no wrong. Funny thing about Barns: he looks the same as the people he calls racists. He is the epitome of self-hatred. Perhaps this will help the posters who claim that they don’t understand the expression.

“Why can’t Australia be more like Canada”? he whines. Why can’t Barns go to live in Canada, Quebec in particular, to see what the French-Canadians make of his blathering? Very tolerant, they are. I notice that he has anticipated the question of his leaving at the end of his diatribe. Apparently he thinks that he can straighten us out, the twerp!

Even the Opposition is too ‘conservative’ for this extremist. If he lived in a country other than this “pigsty” where they did prevent ‘shock jocks’ from having their say, does he really believe that he would last long?

It’s disgusting that creeps like Barns are allowed space on OLO.

Bring on the sedition laws!
Posted by Leigh, Thursday, 22 December 2005 3:31:48 PM
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Of course racism exists in Australia as it does in all countries and all communities. Unfortunately it is the nature of many to dislike people because of differences instead of celebrating those differences.

The easiest thing in the world to be is a racist it takes no effort nor many brains to dislike someone because they are different.

What is that famous saying .... I'm not a racist BUT...... then everything after the "but" is racist.

Australia is a country of diverse cultural backgrounds and that makes it a special place. I've always laughed at people who make racist white propoganda type statements whilst heading off to get their Chinese take away oblivious to the fact that they are making a goose of themselves by undermining their unintelligent arguments.

The fantastic international cuisines now available in Australia is a result of people from other countries coming to live with us. My taste buds thank them.

My relatives arrived in 1855 and I welcome all people from all countries who have chosen to make Australia their home. I also apologise to our wonderful aborigines for the terrible things that have been done to them and their families over the years.

I just wish that I knew more people from other cultures so that I could learn from them and understand them better.
Posted by Opinionated2, Thursday, 22 December 2005 3:34:06 PM
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Greg Barns sees the recent riots as due to (exclusively Anglo) racists who act out of pure unmotivated evil and hatred of a joyous multiracial republic. He is unwilling to recognize that when more and more people are crammed together to compete for an inadequate supply of jobs, housing, public services and amenities, there is going to be conflict. If there are no racial/ethnic differences the ostensible cause will be based on some such factor as religion, social class, politics or even sporting allegiance. In districts where there were no Tutsis, Hutus massacred Hutus.

The business elite who "donate" to both major parties don't give a damn about whether we have a vibrant multiracial society or whether our head of state is called president or queen or Lord High Poohbah. They want (and get) mass migration to give them bigger captive domestic markets, massive increases in real estate prices, and a big pool of unemployed to keep their work force cheap and cowed, unable to object to casualisation, unpaid overtime or unsafe working conditions. 16% of the working age population is primarily dependent on welfare as opposed to 3% in the 1960s, and 30% of Australians are over-qualified for their jobs according to a new paper by Ingrid Linsley to be published in the Journal of Labour Economics. The punters are systematicallly lied to. In international comparisons (as in the CIA World Fact Book) there is no evidence of any per capita economic benefit from population growth. Nor is there a military benefit, as we can see from looking at the Israelis and their vastly more numerous Arab neighbours.

Shut off the oversupply of labour and you shut off the conflict.
Posted by Divergence, Thursday, 22 December 2005 3:36:40 PM
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Where does the quest for tolerance and understanding of different cultures come from?

Multiculturalism is in vogue in every single western country, so how exactly does it define Australia? Sourcing immigrants from all over the world is an idea borrowed (COPIED?) from the US. Every western nation is trying to mimic the US and outdo each other in the tolerance for diversity stakes.

Historically, Europeans have always delighted in relocating people around the planet. You know, Indians to Fiji, Africans to the US, Indians to South Africa, Malaysians to South Africa, Africans to South America. Hell, in 18th century Britain they even had human zoos for the upper classes to admire. Aboriginals were an object of fascination, Rainier!

But we have progressed now. We live in multicultural societies, among the living exotic specimens. FYI, I refuse to take my frustration out on ethnic minorites. They are simply pawns in a bizarre, (cruel?) mindgame by Barns and Co. Might I suggest to the protesters in Cronulla to hunt down the journalists, politicians and academics who despise them so much.
Posted by davo, Thursday, 22 December 2005 4:01:01 PM
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What a sad view of Australia. Racist backwater, pigsty etc. At first read this article seems about as balanced as the extremist posts I seem to spend to much time arguing against lately.

Yes we have racism in this country but there seems to be little evidence that most people are actively racist. As Kay pointed out on another thread some may hold private views that they keep at home. Others are more out there with it but I think that they are a small minority. Most of the overt racism I have seen seems to be in response to provocation of some sort or another, that does not make it correct but hardly a overriding Australian characteristic. Even in the threads filling the forum only a few posters are admitting to racist beliefs, most do seem to be opposed to the muslim faith not so much the race of the people involved. A simple issue of beliefs about the ability of muslims to integrate into our society. I think I have made my views on that fairly clear.

The world has changed since the times of Whitlam, Fraser, Hawke and Keating. Yes Howard does things differently and "may" have played on some of the concerns people hold about what is going on in the world but he and his government have also moved us forward in our relationships with many of our neighbours (some rough spots along the way). We are trying to find a place in an area which is suspicious of our anglo majority and our preference for some principles which are more strongly grounded in our culture than they are in our neighbours cultures. No easy task for any involved.

When parts of Asia were ravaged last boxing day this country was in a position to provide massive financial aid to those neighbours, both government and private giving.

Yes we have some issues to deal with, racist backwater no way.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Thursday, 22 December 2005 4:09:33 PM
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RObert wrote:"Yes we have some issues to deal with, racist backwater no way".

Good one RObert ! Now I'd be interested to know where you think racism does exist and how we should deal with these as issues?

++ Anyone else, please feel free to discuss this one with me too
Posted by Rainier, Thursday, 22 December 2005 4:14:36 PM
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what are you going to do rainier? force every single australian to think the way you do? you keep talking about this phantom 'racism' that we have to fight, but if we really look at it, we see that any 'racism' held by an aussie is a deeply personal thing that for the most part they keep to themselves..

if you have a way of making people who have thought a certain way all their lives change their minds, we'd all love to hear it.. but firing back rhetorical questions to reasonable posts or asking for discussion about a non-topic is useless..

using the word 'balanced' might make you think you sound fair, but for the most part, it makes you sound like an apologist.
Posted by jboywonder, Thursday, 22 December 2005 4:24:26 PM
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Well Rainier, I’d rather we stopped even using the words “race”, “racist”, and “racism”. They seem to me to denote highly ambiguous concepts which are probably unfounded. But I’m prepared to go down that track in a rational discussion, provided we can first come to some agreement on what those key-words mean and provide persuasive evidence of their validity.

Start with “race”. My impression is that in past centuries it had a more or less biological meaning – the human race, the African race, the British race, the Aryan race… Are we talking about some sort of inherited typology based on anatomical and physiological traits? Or is the defining criterion something far more simple, like skin colour?

Some posters seem to be using “race” to refer to a group sharing a set of common beliefs, traditions, language and so on. This implies that “race”= “culture”.

Or perhaps they believe that the biology determines the culture.

Let’s settle that one before we go on to “racism” and “racist”.
Posted by Crabby, Thursday, 22 December 2005 4:38:34 PM
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Greg who? It sounds like this bloke has been out of his own limelight for so long he will say anything to attract attention. He is not speaking for me. I am not a racist. I don't care what colour, creed etc anybody is, and, I will not accept racist behaviour or discrimination towards me or my country. I welcome anybody to these shores who is willing to accept me and my ways as I accept them and theirs but, I will not stand by or stay silent while others try to stop me from dressing how I choose or from going where I want, when I want with whom I want. And that includes those born here, immigrants, visitors, and anybody else whether they be of English, European, Asian, Middle Eastern, African, South American, North American or any other stock! Those of us who have been around a while have been through it all before. We weren't good enough for the Europeans and English immigrants after WWII either. It was their grandchildren who integrated and it will probably happen like that again, but in the meantime I am fed up with people who consider themselves better than me in any or every way including 'better educated', a 'class above', 'wealthier' etc. You don't like me, stay away! You don't like my accent or what I say or how I say it, don't listen! You don't like the way I dress, don't look! You don't like my country, leave! You consider yourself too good to mix with me in good times, don't ask for my help or money in bad times! To me a democracy means choice, mine as well as yours.
Posted by Pesty, Thursday, 22 December 2005 5:29:11 PM
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Well done Greg

You've achieved you're aim. You've got us all talking about ourselves and the distraction of 'racism' and not the real issues of multi-culturalism and the violence of the Lebanese Muslim youths in Sydney.
Posted by keith, Thursday, 22 December 2005 5:37:02 PM
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Pretty silly article, maybe he was just trying to whip up some aggro amongst our more rabid posters. Have to agree that this is the kind of crap that really isn't helping the so called "left"

Racism in Australia? Yes, some, and perhaps bolder than it used to be. Cess pit of the world? No, don't be stupid, and I hope he doesn't think a long list of Australian evils is going to convince anyone. Is it all John Rodent Howards fault? No, probably not, although he is a lying principle free prick who would do anything to win an election.

Hmm, just read the article again, really is pretty stupid, we are all evil etc.. oh dear.
Posted by hellothere, Thursday, 22 December 2005 5:40:09 PM
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Tell ya what,I'll contribute money for a a one way plane ticket for Greg Barns to emigrate to the Muslim country of his choice.He however,must never return to Australia ,the country that he says is so full of racist hate.

Just his usual typical slag off,since he has nothing constructive to offer.It is his only way of gaining attention.Simplistic sniping that might grab our attention.Just like a spoilt child.He and his ilk will gladly suckle at the nipple of capitalist's abundance, yet denegrate those,whose sacrifice and hard work that affords him the time for such self indulgence.

No depth,no talent and no real insights into the Australian psyche.

Good to see you haven't lost that self satisfied smirk Greg,and no we won't cringe into a guilt ridden orgy of self flagellation.
Posted by Arjay, Thursday, 22 December 2005 6:38:44 PM
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Incompetent "adviser" gets kicked off gravy train.
Incompetent "adviser" decides to get back on old boss.
Incompetent "adviser" hopes redicules article may get job with other lot
Incompetent "adviser" must get foot out of mouth, so soap can be inserted.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 22 December 2005 6:53:10 PM
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Finally we have a real racist supremist in Greg Barnes so we can see the attitudes of real racism demonstrated. Racism = loathing of or feelings of superiority over others, this is the heart of the real Greg Barnes.

I'm happy to assist in his one way ticket to a non-racist society! Obviously all persons there would be spruking the same hatred of Australians and John Howard.

Quote, "Australia is a backwater, a racist and inward-looking country that turns its back on adventure and the opportunity to do better; a country that has rejected leaders who provide the chance for a multiracial, multicultural and independent nation to prosper in the region where it is, Asia-Pacific."

Probably his ideal society is somewhere in Asia [not Australia]. Cheaper flights to Asia compared to Canada. Does he look Asian; this could be a problem if he does not look local. Perhaps he needs a little darker swelling around the eyes?
Posted by Philo, Thursday, 22 December 2005 7:42:40 PM
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Greg

If I had written a similar article for publication on OLO, I have no doubt that it would not have been published - on the grounds that it does not present sophisticated argument, and that it sounds like a spoiled backyard bully screaming for attention because he was kicked out of the private school and had to attend a public school. The fragile ego syndrome is pretty clear to me. People who use projection as a defense mechanism are usually not very stable people.

Of course there is racism in this country. Anyone who suggests to the contrary, has their head in the sand. But as I said on another thread, we do not know how much racism there is. I think much is overt, rather than covert. Members of my family and my friends hold racist views. There's no denying that. But they do not let their views be known outside of the family/friends circle. Just as they keep sex in the bedroom, they keep religion in the home, and they keep their racist views in the home. On a visit home recently, when we were discussing politics, prejudice, racism etc., my Mother said this to me: "I wouldn't say this to anyone outside of our family home, for fear of being branded racist, and perhaps victimised".

Greg do you really believe what you are saying? Xenophobia means that a person has a morbid fear of foreigners. So, you are saying that all Australians (presumably white Aussies) have a morbid fear of foreigners. What a load of bulldust.

Sounds to me as though Tasmania is not far enough away for you. Surely Canada would suit you better?

Davo - your first post was great. Thanks Leigh. Thanks RObert.

Merry Christmas all
Kay
Posted by kalweb, Thursday, 22 December 2005 8:21:20 PM
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Addit to the above: what a dumbo! I meant, I think that much is covert, rather than overt. Apologies.

Kay
Posted by kalweb, Thursday, 22 December 2005 8:23:54 PM
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Kay, I find it very sad that your mum fears being victimised for her views. It would seem she is not alone unfortunately.

Might I suggest this due to the excesses of both polictical correctness and of the managed speech so artfully practiced by our so called leaders of all political persuasions and in various walks of life.

The result has been to remove truthfulness and reason as the basis of public debate and the quest for meaning and understanding as its goal.

It is up to all of us redress the balance.

Merry Christmas everybody.
Posted by Global Nomad, Thursday, 22 December 2005 9:24:24 PM
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Re: the pathetic article of Greg Barnes, perhaps it's pertinent to remember that ethnic culture does and should be taken into consideration when assessing suitability to live in this great country, I know I know I can hear some of you now, shaking your head in disgust as another obvious redneck racist joins the queue, but think about if you dare for one second, if some of you more rabid Australian white anglo haters where asked by a middle eastern country to act as an advisor on the potential influx of white anglo Australians to their country for immigration, specificaly they want to know whether they as a race have a propensity for racism, as the said country naturally does not want such races in their country stirring up trouble, so what would be your recommendation ? could you in all honestly recommend such a redneck racist group ? why then do we not consider such things when it comes to immigration to our own country, just as a muslim country would not like a race of people who hated everything about it's people and values, should we tolerate the same ?
Greg and others remind me of people I have worked with who will never ever go with the majority no matter how right it is, whether it's in a meeting, or chanting for a team(one night watching state of origin with family and friends and we where all fantical maroons supporters, when one bloke I invited starting cheering the blues, slanging went back and forth all in good fun, after the game I said to my friend I didn't know you where from NSW, he said I'm not I'm from QLD, and I'm like well how come you are supporting the blues, he said because I hate going with the majority !, I thought okay whatever tickles your fantasy, and no before you even go there I do not believe we all should be sheep and follow blindly but being recalcitrant purley for the sake of bucking the system is a form of insecurity in my opinion.
Posted by VGC, Thursday, 22 December 2005 9:30:44 PM
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Kalweb,thanks for the complements and endorsements on the the other threads reguarding racism.You definitely try to be honest and portray a warts and all view of the world.Yes,and I try to view the world through my own experiences.

We are all potential racists,since racism stems from fear and our natural propensity to establish pecking orders.

I think we and many Western Nations have brought about too much social change.It should have been more of an evolutionary change rather than the revolution we see backfiring in our faces today.

The left have been on a mission of putting the Western Culture in it's place for the last 30yrs.Our success as an introspective, self critical culture,has been our undoing.This self deprecation has gone just too far.Compared to many other nations the English speaking nations have done more for world peace than any other culture.Where would the world today with Nazi Germany ruling Europe and Japan Ruling Asia and the Pacific Regions?

Fools like Greg Barns just want revolution and bugger the consequences.

When I look at any economy/society I want to keep the good bits that make it function and slowly change those things we all agree to be negatives.
Posted by Arjay, Thursday, 22 December 2005 9:39:41 PM
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Rainer, I'm not going straight to your question. To easy for it to become a score counting exercise and a who is most racist contest. Can you imagine the buy in to that we will get from some.

In my ideology racism occurs whenever "an individual is advantaged or disadvantaged and the deciding factor for that occuring is their perceived racial characteristics".

Now I tend to find it unhealthy to live to close to an ideology. Lots of innocent people tend to get hurt when idology's become more important than getting on with life. They are a nice guide which need to be tempered with the needs of the real world.

Sometimes it becomes very convenient to use race (or other potentially discriminatory criteria) to work with a group whcih is perceived to need more help than others in an area. You might find that certain health patterns for indiginous australians fell well outside the norm. Some of those indiginous australians might be healthier than the norm and some non-indiginous australians might be unhealthier than the norm for indiginous australians but overall indiginous australians might be seen as a group needing special help with health issues. Potentially racist, yes, a pragmatic solution yes.

I take the view that a lot of "racism" falls into a similar thing, an administrative tool to help people avoid the complexities of treating people as individuals. Most "racism" is more about underlying cultural issues and disagreements than about the colour of someones skin. Net result on people impacted by it is the same

That view is one reason I try not to float the racist tag around to much. I'd arther try and find a way to get to the underlying issues. There are some racists but I suspect most are responding to other issues be they fair or not.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Thursday, 22 December 2005 9:54:57 PM
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Sounds to me like Greg is just after attention, so he has to say something controversial to get it. No different to the kids in the school playground really.....

If he is trying to push the islam barrow to achieve it, he's clearly
not too smart either. Go and visit a whole lot of Muslim countries and tell me where tolerance is part of that religion. A bit like
our Catholics really, only we have the freedom to tell them so,
most people in Muslim countries don't.
Posted by Yabby, Thursday, 22 December 2005 10:32:32 PM
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Yabby, the only reason you have the freedom to "tell them so" is Not because of your religion, but because of your country's democratic values. One need only look at history to see how bloodthirsty christian religions have been (all in the name of God too...irony ftl). Even today, what is your pope telling you? How to inhibit your freedoms, is what.
Posted by Steel, Friday, 23 December 2005 1:49:05 AM
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Part 1.

You should all be ashamed of yourselves, especially those who say Greg's well-written article was illogical and misleading.. it has a beginning, and an end, with paragraphs of stuff in between, so why shouldn't it be published?

As Greg points out, Australia is a racist country, and nowhere is that demonstrated better than by it's continual prejudice against Australians of Musca vetustissiman descent, derisively labelled across the continent as 'Australian bush flies' or worse, simply 'bloody flies'. For over two hundred years now, the foreign invaders (the Vetustissima race have lived on this continent for over 45,000 years) have come up with every imaginable method of killing, maiming and torturing them indescriminantly, showing little remorse or sign of ever holding back. Yet this tragedy is rarely discussed openly. It is indeed our national shame.

Despite this, these little Australians have shown themselves to be truly resilient in the face of adversity. In addition to the relentless program of what could only be described as attempted genocide, they are also often identified incorrectly, as a spokesperson for the Vetustissimas recently explained:

"People often mistake us as being of Musca domestican descent, also called 'Malaysian house flies' by some. We are currently trying to spread public awareness about this, since', as he pointed out, "Domesticas, or 'Lalats', always hang around rubbish and sewage, and aim for food, whereas we do not. We prefer to derive protein from around people's eyes, a relatively harmless activity", he argued.

In reply to that, a representive for the Lalats labelled the Vetustissimas hypocrites: 'They always forget to mention that they spend most of their life cycles in or around cow manure, and that their preference for eye fluid can lead to the spread of the 'trachoma' disease. Why doesn't that ever get mentioned? Not that the Australian Government has ever supported our needs either. All we want to do is to find a place to raise a family, just like everyone else. But the Anglos always accuse us, claiming that we try to steal their beer, even though we don't drink alcohol.'
Posted by Ev, Friday, 23 December 2005 2:39:07 AM
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Part 2.

Nevertheless, amongst those in the know, the Vetustissimas have a reputation of being the cleaner race. A Cootamundra local of Anglo-Celtic background, who did not wish to be named, was succinct about the issue, albeit in a morbid way:

'Lalats produce this slimy and icky white stuff when they die. That's why I often don't want to kill house flies. Bush flies don't produce anything. They just, well, die. So that'd surely encourage you to kill them. Lalats are dirty, and die a dirty death. Bush flies die a cleaner death.'

Still outraged, however, the Vetustissimas see this as yet another thinly veiled excuse for genocide.

'In addition to the countless bashings and murders, the Australian Government also introduced the Dung beetles into the country, with the deliberate intention of reducing our overall population,' stated the representative, citing the results of a 1998 study:

'At one site in New South Wales a number of experiments were carried out in 1987/88 to measure the levels of egg to adult mortality of bush flies in cattle dung. Adding exotic dung beetles to cattle dung increased bush fly mortality from levels where populations could increase (85% mortality) to levels where populations decreased (97% mortality).

In one site in south western Australia around 1980 prior to the establishment of introduced beetles bush fly populations peaked each spring and early summer building up to around 20,000 flies/ha in December each year. Ten years later in 1990 peak bush fly populations were around 1000 flies/ha, considered to be a threshold at which they could become a nuisance.'
(original source: http://www.viacorp.com/update.html)

Greg asked, 'Why can't Australia be more like Canada?'
I think Greg needs to consider that although the Canadians may be more tolerant, this benefit would be offset by the sub-arctic temperatures that pervade there in winter. This would surely have an adverse effect on the Vetustissimas' ability to raise families.

'Let's admit it. Australia has become a pigsty.'
On this one point I have to disagree with Greg, although it must surely be at the top of every fly's wish list this Christmas.
Posted by Ev, Friday, 23 December 2005 2:42:11 AM
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Greg Barns lives in his own little world. I hope he stays there.

wre is it true what Shonga says about you?
Posted by FRIEDRICH, Friday, 23 December 2005 5:50:57 AM
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the author is a self hating australian who really should leave for canada immediately, he will only be satisfied when all of australias culture and traditions have been destroyed or swamped by accepting millions of migrants

the people wanting to emigrate to australia come from countries that are far more racist than australia is

the authors diatribe is typical of the hard lefts addictive requirement to achieve the warm inner glow from frequently asserting their moral superiority over all others
Posted by harry34, Friday, 23 December 2005 5:56:19 AM
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aussies by and large are not overtly racist but they do object to some people because of their behaviour and this is often construed by the media wind-bags as racism.

in sydney noone likes lebanese because of their behaviour and their foul attitude and lack of civility.......unfortunately the actions of a few can tarnish the reputation of a whole group.

there is a retard sub section of the lebanese population which causes all the trouble in sydney......they are deliberately provocative and obnoxious towards aussie skips. this antagonistic anti social behaviour has been evident for at least 15 years and culminated in the recent riots.

this isn't racist behaviour by skips merely an signal to our useless labour gov that the law abiding citizens have had enough.

it is my experience that the vast majority of skips treat people as they find them......if ethnics are nice and friendly towards them then aussies will recipricate.
Posted by vinny, Friday, 23 December 2005 6:09:58 AM
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Rage can be provoked in most people when the right buttons are pushed. You have provoked it in me! I’m a very peaceful white Australian, antiracist, law abiding citizen.In my circle of family, friends, and acquaintances I am not aware of one racist. My dearest group of friends includes a Muslim of Middle Eastern appearance and a white Australian Bahai. We all strive beyond tolerance to acceptance. Misguided and over zealous youth spurred on by a lunatic fringe element is what went wrong in Sydney. This lunatic fringe element exists in all the countries of the globe. Australia’s democracy affords this element the same rights and freedoms that the rest of us appreciate. You need to recognise this element for what it is, and not accredit the ideologies of various minority groups to the rest of the Australian public. Your personal dissatisfaction with the current government’s political policies does not equate to Australia being a racist country. I see your credentials Greg Barns, and I am so damn sick of the likes of you printing lies like these for the rest of the world to read. Today, to my own surprise my tolerance is not being extended to fools. Wish you were here.
Posted by Honey, Friday, 23 December 2005 6:46:26 AM
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Australians have succumbed to materialism, fear, racism and xenophobia?

NOOO. You're Dreamin'.

Australians have succumbed to global capitalism ably abetted by the wet-dreams of politicians of the day like Howard, Iemma, Carr and Sartor.

The aim of the game is to stick as many consumers into big cities as possible. Don't provide proper government services. Let the consumers fight it out for who gets the best slice of the action which through savage competition provides bigger markets for Telcos and other global companies. The rat race becomes more intense. Enshrine the governments of the day with unquestioned power based on fear and uncertainty. Endow government officials with a right to retire from office at the head of some goddamned obscene Dynasty and sit as royalty over the social mess and melee they have created.

Like I said a wet-dream. The reality is as we all know quite different. Because of a loss of democratic and moral values in the above dreamscape, politicians have forgotten that we are smarter and inherently more powerful that they are. Their branch stacking and shoe-horning of mates into safe seats that skews politics in this country also renders our political leaders degenerate and ill equipped to cope with the reality of concerned citizens with real problems. It endows us with a willingness to fight and even riot and rebel to solve those probems and the only global capital winners are baseball bat sellers.

Of course Howard says: everything is OK, full steam ahead with immigration and global capital. Don't wake me from my dream.

But someomne please: 'Tell him his DREAMIN'.

What we want is a moratorium on immigration and TIME to stabilise our society and where we belong within it. To spread the wealth from increasing commodity prices and burgeoning commodity exports from OUR country fairly and equitably among all Australians and not just those who have done the deals behind closed doors and closed eyes.
Posted by KAEP, Friday, 23 December 2005 7:29:00 AM
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You must understand Gregs problem before putting him down. Kalweb, please we have got rid of him from tas, he lives in Melb. We have yet to ban him from coming back, but legislation is in the pipeline, which is yet to be laid.

Greg suffers from one of those little problems called addiction and he can't cope with the realities of life. One only has to read his record revues to realise how far of the planet he is. The we must consider those that live on anti depressants, really haven't much of a brain and what remains is vitamised by the constant input of drugs. When you align this to inept stupidity, you have a reflex action called ignorance, which places one in yhe category of useless twit.

When you categorise and label these ingredients, you have a syndrome called akerman-barns complex. It appears that akerman-barns complex is exempt from sedition laws. Could that be because they carry the prestigious symbol of elitist reverence, deeply browned noses.
Posted by The alchemist, Friday, 23 December 2005 8:29:31 AM
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Racism is really just a belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

Discrimination or prejudice based on race is not racism as such, as that is an ACTION - not a belief or thought.

We need to expand the Australian vocabulary so as to differentiate a belief from a negative action.

Putting everybody and everything in the same basket in order to not be seen as discriminating is causing the problems we are seeing today.

We need to differentiate.
Posted by Jolanda, Friday, 23 December 2005 8:38:28 AM
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Remember this article next time you agree with something Greg Barns says or writes.

As numerous posters have already given great and obvious reasons why this article is rubbish, all I have to add is that I too think Greg Barns is an idiot.
Posted by Alan Grey, Friday, 23 December 2005 8:52:20 AM
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Steel I agree with much of what you write, but I think that the Islamic world has alot of catching up to do. Xtians preach the Jesus loves you story, so can't really burn people at the stake for heresy anymore, like the Catholics used to.

Islam still has the problem that its a political religion, yet when people challenge the belief, their heads can be removed for
blasphemy etc. Thats the danger of having religion and politics
intertwined.

Thats why the only solution that I see is to keep religion as a lifestyle choice and no more. People should have freedom of religion
but also freedom from religion. Once you mix religion and politics,
intolerant religious leaders want to take over and they do in many countries.
Posted by Yabby, Friday, 23 December 2005 9:11:36 AM
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Get out of Hobart mate,

It is doing your head in.

I disagree entirely. perhaps in Hobart things are different.

If that was a fishing expidition you have got plenty of bites.

Are you serious?
Posted by Realist, Friday, 23 December 2005 9:15:10 AM
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Sorry Greg,

This article (unlike your other article on Nguyen Tuong Van at http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=3966) doesn't add much of value to the debate IMHO.

There may be a way forward out of this terrible rut that Australia finds itself in today, but it won't be found by unthinkingly repeating the same politically correct claptrap that has paralysed our thinking for the last 25 years at least.

We need to start thinking in a slightly more sophisticated way, and to acknowledge that the way many of the rioters at Cronulla have expressed their grievances in racist terms is an outcome of the uncontrolled social experiment of having so many more people crowded into cities in recent years, evidently for no better reason than to give to property speculators, unearned windfall profits at the expense of poor people both here and overseas, as I have also written here:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=3954#24278

Could I commend to site visitors, an excellent, but far from politicallally correct contribution to the debate regarding the previous racially motiviated riots at Cronulla on John Quiggin's Blog at :

http://johnquiggin.com/index.php/archives/2005/12/14/after-the-riots/#comment-39413

It begins :

"I don’t know if I am right about this, but here is my impression about the events in Cronulla and the way they have been reported. It seems so difficult to talk about them. I would be interested to know if anyone else shares my perceptions, could develop them or could make me see things more clearly.

"When I read about the riots in Cronulla, I feel as if we are looking at the results of a cynical manipulation of naivety.

"The cynicism is in those who are driving and facilitating population boosting via high immigration. They have focused benefits to gain from creating a demand for land and the products of the industries upstream and downstream of the housing industry. Secondary to this is the whole industry of immigrationism and multiculturalism."

"The naivety is in the attitudes of well-meaning ideologues ..."
Posted by daggett, Friday, 23 December 2005 9:31:20 AM
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Australia not a racist country? Even John Howard is stretching his renowned mendacity on this one.

Let me tell you about a little incident I witnessed at a place called Gove in the very early seventies. I had gone there during my university vacation to take up a well paying job, cleaning toilets. At that time the local blacks were banned from buying booze from the subsidised workers' bars. They had to buy it from the workers on the black market, if you get my drift.

Just before Christmas a black guy had been caught by the white workers allegedly stealing booze. The lads took him down to the Wallaby Beach wet canteen, strung him up on the cross bars and gave him a public flogging.

The other blackfellows decided to return the lesson. The wet canteen drinkers were disturbed to find a large proportion of the local tribe attacking the camp with spears and clubs. The brawl which followed only ended when the coppers announced that all bars would close indefinitely.

Then there were a few more days of quiet again.

But a few days later, the tribe caught up with the head blackmarketeer as he was making his way home to his donga (barrack). The clubs they used on him left him a vegetable.

That's when the members of the Northern Australian Workers Union called a general strike. I remember one bloke called George saying at the union meeting:

"We should sort out the coons like they did in Tasmania!"

Jesus, I thought, he's talking extermination. But not quite so.

"We should march shoulder to shoulder across the peninsula, and kick out any coons we find. Then we should build a big bloody electric fence!"
"Good idea George," said one of his mates," but the coons have got boats, mate!" "They can sail around any fence we build!"

That was when they decided on a curfew enforced by vigilantes.

Australia is not a racist country? Where have you been living?
Posted by Taxpayer, Friday, 23 December 2005 10:00:02 AM
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If it was a troll, Greg, it was a bloody good one!

The problem with many of the responses is that they cannot accept that someone can love the country they live in, but also have a clear understanding of its flaws and shortcomings. A little like loving your kids - they may not be perfect, but you love them to death anyway.

It is not necessary to hate yourself for feeling this way either - every parent does it. In the same way, those who accuse you variously of self-hatred, or hatred of Australia, have missed the mark entirely.

It is a strange attitude, where critical analysis cannot, in some people's eyes, exist outside an emotional, "with us or agin' us" frame of mind.

Sad, really.
Posted by Pericles, Friday, 23 December 2005 10:56:20 AM
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Ro and Big Fish illustrate some of the attitudes and myths which lead to the accusation that Australia is racist.

Ro claims “ a Canadian legislature was forced to knock down a bizarre but well orchestrated attempt to enshrine sharia law in Canada”.

I was in Canada, in Ontario, in July this year. These are the facts.
For 12 years or so, in one province (Ontario) it was possible for Muslims and Jews and Christians and any faith to settle disputes according to their beliefs, if both partners agreed. It is no longer.

Ontario (not the whole of Canada) has an Arbitration Act, introduced 14 years ago for consenting 'believing' couples to voluntarily use religion to settle their family disputes. This move, it was hoped, would help take some pressure off the courts. Subsequently, a few Jewish, Christian and Muslim couples used religious arbitration to settle disputes. Note it was open to all religions and its application was strictly limited (mainly family / marital disputes). Subsequently (post 9/11), a judge in Ontario specifically removed this right from Muslims. ( i.e. it was still open to other religions). This inconsistency was resolved in September this year, when, Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty said that he will move to ban all faith-based arbitration.

And as for Big Fish’s sarcastic “Australia is racist because all detaineed “refugees” are genuine”. Again, nobody has ever claimed all asylum seekers are genuine refugees. The Government’s own figures put it at about 80% (that's right, 8 out of 10). So we detain 100% for long periods, because 1 in 5 might be non-genuine. Last time I checked, there had been virtually no asylum seekers rejected on the basis of being security risk. I think any smart terrorist would be well funded enough to come by air, rather than leaky boat.

Australia racist? Ro and Big Fish are good examples which support Greg Barnes’argument.
Posted by AMSADL, Friday, 23 December 2005 11:07:15 AM
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I agree Pericles that you can still love your country - warts and all. That doesn't mean being blind to a fair assessment of its qualities.

1. We are seeing an outbreak of overt racism, above that of the usual covert activities.

2. We have proven that we have succumbed to materialism - else why vote back John Howard?

3. Xenophobia - alive and well, look no further than this website.

4. Fear - of anything or anyone who doesn't fit in with someone's narrow world view.

Perhaps it is time for another OLO poll, Graham. The question being:

Do you believe in equal rights/responsibilities for all Australian citizens?

BTW, yesterday I met three friends for lunch in the CBD. One friend's skin was the colour of mocha chocolate and Hindu, one had dark olive skin and black eyes - a Christian from Sri Lanka and myself and the fourth friend; fair skinned and atheist. Apart from our enduring friendship we had one other thing in common:

We are all Australians.

Peace
Posted by Scout, Friday, 23 December 2005 11:39:14 AM
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Hi All,

New to this forum but this artcle has prompted my participation...

Can anybody take this guy seriously given his background - he was a Howard advisor and dumped by the Liberal party, now aligned with the Democrats. For goodness sake, what a bell-end!

This is the most pathetic example of sour-grapes I have ever seen. I assume that all was ok until he no longer advised the Howard govt and we have turned into a racist backwater since?

Cheers

jimmyj
Posted by jimmyj, Friday, 23 December 2005 11:50:04 AM
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TAXPAYER
yes, those kinds of things happened, and possibly still do in some places, and they are the worst peversions of humanity imaginable.

I experienced the same sorf of terror in the RAAF.
Last night I met up with some mates from my intake. We all still bear the scars of those days.

We had left home at 16, some just 15 1/2 had a week of absolute paradise, meeting a bunch of new people. Then the Drill instructor told us "Things have been pretty good till now, that will CHANGE tomorrow" and the 2nd yrs came back. It turned from heaven to hell on earth for a full year. I absolutely know what the aboriginals felt. But they turned their outrage into action, and good on them.

I met people like those white guys, on the 2nd yr intake and we had about 3 on ours. Sadistic bastards who should have been culled at birth. One of my mates reflected with sadness and regret that the brutality we experienced, moved some of us to pass it on to the next intake...

I promise u one thing. If i ever saw a white guy treating a black guy like that, it would be on for young and old.(at least verbally -I'd have to hide my Bible first though :) I feel the same about White guys who abuse a lone Lebanese who comes to the beach, as I do for a Lebanese who spits in the food of a white guy who he does not even know. (One of my mates saw this when he was in Sydney)

I received an email back from the Pakistani journalist who wrote a VERY balanced story of the riot, thanking me for taking the trouble to thank him for his efforts.

"Thanks, Julian, I wrote what I believed to be true.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

--Razi"

The crazy thing is, a Muslim Journo in Pakistan can see things as they really are, but Greg Barns cannot. Yes, sour grapes I'd say or just a stupid trolling exercise.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 23 December 2005 12:17:19 PM
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AMSADL

Throwing mud is always a sign of defeat. So Ro and I are racist because single comment even if sarcastic. Pity you did not have the ability to counter most of the other arguments with logical and consistent debate. Oh by the way does Australia have to repeal laws specifically aimed at a religion or race? Like your example of Canada?

The fact most people here seem to suggest the racist backwater comment is crap indicates that you maybe in the minority.

Oh well have fun this Christmas seeing the seething masses of racists going about their business in this backwater. In a way I pity your view of the world. Glass half empty? Or maybe you have not experienced enough to see the truth. If so I can understand your stance better.

Merry Xmas everyone, be safe - from a wog.
Posted by The Big Fish, Friday, 23 December 2005 1:11:26 PM
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Everybody is entitled to their opinion but I do find Greg Barns’ comment quite obnoxious.
Of more concern to me is how long he has held these opinions. If he held these views while filling responsible positions in various organisations in the past then the employment pool must have been shallow indeed.
One organisation springs to mind. The NSW Democrats called on Greg Barns to run their last election campaign.
If he thought two years ago that Australia is a racist pigsty, not worthy of himself then what chance did the Democrats have with him at the wheel.
I do not give a hoot for Greg Barns opinions but I do care that that the Democrats may have been dragged down by the likes of he.
Posted by Goeff, Friday, 23 December 2005 2:52:36 PM
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It is interesting to note that those that don't like Greg Barns article, spend a great deal of time on attackng other cultures and religious folk whose main identifying feature is their appearance.

Again we see those who relish rolling around in filth. Their materialism, fear, racism and xenophobia tagging those who disagree or inciting violence.
Tell about self control. Can you imagine spending two years away from home in New Guinea's harsh environment; being in a a campaign that went through Christmas into the New Year where you overheated during the day and shivered at night. Where if you didn't hold back a cough a snipper would kill you; where the enemy was thirty metres away; where you see your Pardre killed whilst trying to give comfort to a dying soldier in now-where land; where your best mate was blown to pieces by your side; can you imagine the dhobies, the malaria and seeing two-thirds of your battalion slaughtered; retrieving mates bodies with flesh removed.

Now after all this an Aussie digger smacks a Japanese prisoner across the face with the back of a shovel (for being arrogant) and the battalion head (Vaney) forms a parade and orders the men "to do the right thing". Now these Australian men who defended our freedom are generally regarded as honourable Australians.

In other words, we owe it to them to "follow orders" and be an honourable nation. We mustn't follow others' behaviour, Australians must be fair and square.

Those Dennis the Menaces and most of you whining, whinging, fascism-loving trouble makers have spat on the graves of those honourable men - you have and are shaming Australia.

And can you imagine how f*cking hurtful it is to see those f*cking little Dennis the Menaces parading their egos down in Sydney. Why because some homeboys are acting tough? Garbage, the "patriots" and their supporters are pretentious hooligans with f*ck all resillence or respect for Australian values.

Irfan was right about one thing, if you been to hell- you do everything to avoid creating that situation again.

Do the right thing.
Posted by rancitas, Friday, 23 December 2005 6:15:07 PM
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What an evil, wicked, ill thing that Greg Barns is.

Just read the first few lines, the generalisations and racist rants are enough to convict him of first class hypocrasy.

It's like a paedophile writing an article about how dispicable and too young marriage and sex at 18 is.

What an ill, racist, elitist, ethnic-pet keeper, poor person despiser, scum.
Posted by Matthew S, Friday, 23 December 2005 7:02:09 PM
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Talking about racism and the PC brigade.Just this morning at about 2.00 am a Middle Eastern Gang of about 25 people is denied entry into the Greenwood Pub at North Sydney, Police are called and are asked to leave,some begin to push the police around,it becomes a stand off and the police back off and play the waiting game until the thugs decide to seek a victim elsewhere to bash.Not a single person arrested.

Morris Iemma is madly rushing around hailing his discovery of a few white supremacists yet our police force is still too scared to take on Middle Eastern gangs.Don't upset the Middle Eastern Gangs because they can get too violent.What a gutless incompetent Govt NSW has,that betrays the good will and obedience of the law of it's hardworking citizens.The power of these gangs is the result of a Govt bereft of ideas or courage.

Morris Iemma and his Govt should be charged with sedition and treason
because they have ignored the pleas of honest diligent people and try to fob it all off as anglo racism.
Posted by Arjay, Friday, 23 December 2005 7:59:54 PM
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My very great fear is that people like the author of this thread may have an influence on the ALP.
Never before has it been more important that Labor win an election, and our chances are zero if we bury our heads in the sand.
Rubbish for the most part the thread overlooks true raceism and criminal activety from a section of Sydneys Lebanese Muslim comunity.
Yes lunatics acted poorly from both sides but lack of powers for police to act started this.
Leave Australia if you think its a pigsty take our states leader with you he is of little use.
Posted by Belly, Friday, 23 December 2005 8:48:45 PM
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And another thing, about the relation between riots and global capitalism:

State and Federal governments find it CHEAPER to import skills rather than spend money on educating existing Australian citizens. They find it alluring to perform the TURNBULLIAN trick of stripping money out of free education and giving it to the wealthy elite as TAX CUTS. This is supposed to create employment as the rich spend more on goods and services. And it does create employment. Slave lanour only for skilled people and government policy is to immigrate such skills to beef up budget surpluses while stripping vast funding from public education. That's how the Libs keep the budget in the black. It is also how they keep sections of the community in hopelss despair as they fight each other for respect like spiders in a jar. It is not racism or xenophobia, it is government policy.

FREE PUBLIC EDUCATION in Australia is the answer to the problem, not policing. FPE is not an option, it is a must. We have the employment skills within Australia and they are far better off being trained for valued and respected positions that out bashing their neighbours.

The next Federal government in Australia will be the one that promises free public education as its Number ONE priority. Kim Beasley should take note. The Libs are so far out of touch, their only answer to riots is to ignore them, immigrate over them or lock us down. They have been in offic too long. A new broom is destined to sweep the floor of parliament clean.

And it is important to remember that record minerals prices and exports are driving the Australian economy. Ipso facto, these minerals belong to all Australians and the biggest contribution their profits can make to Australia is to bring OUR skill sets in line with the best in the world. Therin lies the end of racism and dissent, the end of skills shortages and the end of public officials gouging rich futures at the expense of we the people of this great nation.
Posted by KAEP, Friday, 23 December 2005 11:17:05 PM
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I came to Australia over 43 years ago from England. My family is very racially mixed, but basically Caucasian. There have been some comments about some of the newcomers to Australia being disapproving of Australian women wearing bikinis. What's new? Several years ago, during a debate in the NSW parliament on clothes optional beaches, then MP Fred Nile said that he'd like to see us all [on the beach] in neck-to-knees. [I'm not joking, this is true!]

Back in 1962, when it came to acceptance of bikinis, England was a few years behind continental Europe, but well ahead of Australia, where girls still risked being ordered off the beach by over zealous beach inspectors if their bikinis were judged to be too revealing. My first wife looked good in string bikinis and I've never been the jealous, insecure type, so I encouraged her to wear them.

One time we were sitting on an uncrowded Perth beach. A man of "Anglo-Australian" appearance settled himself near us where he could see between my wife's legs. I told him that there was plenty of room on the beach and he could go and sit elsewhere. He said that he would sit where he pleased. So I told him that if he didn't move, then I would make him move. And he moved! Life was pretty simple in those days, there was no expectation that he would go off and come back with about 25 of his mates.

Presumably no-one would have accused me of being racist, I was merely being chivalrous. [Yes, a funny old-fashioned word, but I believe that many Australian men are naturally chivalrous when it comes to looking after women.]

But what if that was today and the ill-mannered man was of "Middle Eastern" appearance. Would that make me racist?

I suppose it could be said that by encouraging my wife to wear a string bikini on an Australian beach after some of my Australian friends had told me that it could get her ordered off [that never happened], I was imposing my culture on my host country.
Posted by Rex, Saturday, 24 December 2005 12:52:27 AM
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Greg, if you want REAL fear, racism, discrimination and xenophobia, I suggest you look at the life and works of Mohammed and his followers. This is not about Australians, Europeans, Asians, “people of middle eastern appearance” or even kangaroos.

This is about a people that live by a code of hate and anger. This is about a people who want special privileges for themselves and who want to impose their will upon others. They, just like you, will not accept full equality between people. People like you and they must blame others and demand they be exempt from normal standards of civil society, and be treated in a special, or in PC lingo, more ‘sensitive’ manner because they, of course, are persecuted by the evil, ignominious, hateful majority. Most of all, this is about a people, you and Muslims, that are in denial.

To deny and ignore this fact is to be blind to current events. Of course, people like you will always blame others – it is the politically correct thing to do. And when the next riots come, or a terror attack – and be certain they will come - you will blame Australia, white European culture or Christianity, again. That is the dogma of multiculturalism.

Oh yes, riots can happen in Melborne. The genie is out of the bottle.

Before I go let me share an article about Muslim demands in India…
http://www.dailypioneer.com/displayit1.asp?pathit=/archives2/dec2005/oped/opd4.txt
Of course this could never happen to Australia. Even if Muslims in Canada wanted the right to murder apostates leaving Islam, that doesn't tell us anything does it. Lets all hold hands and sing kumbayah.

I wonder if our Muslims friends here of Paki descent ever consider the differences between the way India (Hindu majority) treats its minority religions and the way Pakistan (Muslim country) treats its religious minorities - the few that it hasn’t driven away or killed. Oh excuse me, that may cause these people to think about Islam. How careless of me.

Kactuz
Posted by kactuz, Saturday, 24 December 2005 2:58:27 AM
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So the overwhelming opinion of posters here are around 80% think Barnes is a scumbag who should have been drowned at birth (me included) and 20%, the monocular doyens of the left who think it must be the governments fault and any other rubbish they can find to build up their sense of purpose and excuse their political ineptness.

I threw out a challenge -

I admit there is (and always will be) an element of racism in Australia JUST AS THERE IS IN ALL SOCIETIES.

However, I ranked Australia as a racist society in comparison to all other parts of the world, admittedly using a very broad and general brush.

No one has challenged that ranking scale.

I, therefore, assume that we are, then, all in agreement.

Whilst Australia displays, within the fabric of its culture, an element of racism, when compared to the rest of the World we are, in fact, the leading example of "Worlds Best Practice" and are "The Least Racist Among All".

The point with dismay at the Sydney beach riots by the rest of the world was not that there were "riots" but they were in "Australia", which has the enviable reputation of being among the safest places on Earth. Had the same riots happened in say Eastern Europe or Asia or Africa they would have hardly got a mention.

Barnes is a negative connotation just as "racism" is a negative connotation both things for which we cannot be proud nor positive about but things which are like the bits of "scum" that end up floating on the surface in backwaters - because they lack the (moral) strength to swim in the "flow" of mainstream.
Posted by Col Rouge, Saturday, 24 December 2005 5:52:23 AM
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KAEP,
Your proposed answer to racism by public education and policing is bigoted by your hatred of john Howard. Both education and the police are Morris Iemma State Govt responsibilities. So get of the JH bashing and propose real answers. Stop the political spin and realise we live together in one society and community that must be healed.

The criminal element in our society do not see sitting in classes as providing them with real skills, they are usually drop-outs. Many of them drive around in BMW's funded by drugs and prostitution.

Rex,
Please be honest mate!
Qoute, "Several years ago, during a debate in the NSW parliament on clothes optional beaches, then MP Fred Nile said that he'd like to see us all [on the beach] in neck-to-knees. [I'm not joking, this is true!]"

Fred Nile lives on the beachfront overlooking the beach and his wife does not wear a neck to knee swimsuit, nor does his family members. In fact the family wear the same as everyone else on the beach. The only reason Fred would have used the term was to overcome the abuse your Anglo-pest caused.
Posted by Philo, Saturday, 24 December 2005 7:49:11 AM
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How the hell were you ever a member of the Liberal party?

Are you just bitter over loosing your preselection and the fact that your new party is dead in the water?
Posted by DLC, Saturday, 24 December 2005 9:14:39 AM
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>>So the overwhelming opinion of posters here are around 80% think Barnes is a scumbag<<

Yes Col, isn't it interesting that 80% of the responses are ad hominem attacks on the author.

This usually happens when the accusations made are a little too close for comfort.
Posted by Pericles, Saturday, 24 December 2005 9:53:10 AM
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It's always amazed me that nitwits like Barnes and his groupies are quick to cloak themselves in the saintly light of compassion, tolerance, understanding, justice and other similar delusional twaddle and yet fail to see their own hypocrisy when they produce racist, intolerant rubbish like this. I'm quite embarrassed for Greg who I'm sure must go home every night and self-flagellate into a delerium of pius conviction. Thus refreshed he lines up yet again to do battle against the evil white person, the same who bullied him at school, belittled him at work, spurned him in love, and disciplined him unfairly at home.

Remember the climate under one of Greg's favourite guru's Paul Keating? People were too scared to say a word for fear of being called "racist" or worse. Geoffrey Blainey lost his job because he dared to say that perhaps the current level of immigration wasn't good for our social fabric. He has been proved right and people like Barnes wrong. The good thing is that Barnes and his thought Nazi's are becoming more and more irrelevant. Their superior warblings are having less and less influence. Decent Australians are sick of being called racial and religious bigots whilst Christian Churches are put to the torch. They're happy to see a grub sent to jail for carrying a tree branch but dismayed to see other grubs not even charged for smashing cars with baseball bats and waving pistols in the air. And all this accompanied by deafening silence from the thought nazi's.

News flash Greg - racism is wrong no matter who perpertrates it! You might identify yourself as a victim of horrible white people but don't try to drag other Australians into your abyss.
Posted by bozzie, Saturday, 24 December 2005 10:39:27 AM
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Pericles – ad hominem is perfectly acceptable when one is defending tolerance, justice, fairness, and democracy against the predations of thought Nazi’s and other assorted fascist rabble.
Posted by bozzie, Saturday, 24 December 2005 10:53:28 AM
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Pericles, you are on the right track. We get a lot of Greg in Tas, and are used to his articles. He also revues music, movies and shows for the Mercury, doesn't seem to have much understanding of that either.

They use greg as a part of their shock troops, as with Ackerman and others. It's designed to give the impression the papers are open and unbiased, which is totally the opposite to the reality of their agenda.

People fear when their vulnerabilities are exposed, we see that with a lot of posters here. When they publish Barnes, they put him on the top half of the page and Ackerman on the bottom. Both totally different views. Yes this country has succumbed to materialism, but so has every country in the world.

Fear, yes Australians are beginning to fear, as the reality of the collapsing world catches up with us. That fear is justified, as until the last 30 years, we have been insulated. Now we have imported all the ills of the world by allowing religious cultures to impose their ways upon us. We have two options, allow religion to dictate to us and suffer the same fate as the rest of the world is undergoing, or remove religious expression and culture from our streets and public arena's.

There are no other options, religion will not allow anything, other than for them to be in control. Sadly it appears we will continue to argue whilst the undermining continues, until religious war fully breaks out here. With our current power brokers, the lib/lab coalition, we will only see a downhill trend. I don't see an answer unless we have a party or benevolent dictator, rather than the current path we are on to police state, that will throw out the elite and install reason and responsibility into our society. Something that is severely lacking in our current social makeup.
Posted by The alchemist, Saturday, 24 December 2005 11:00:16 AM
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Greg Barns`s rants hurt the anti-racist cause. Regrettably there is racism in Australian society - among white Australians and also among various ethnic communities. However, the notion that `the world` is scandalised by Australia`s racism - including our Asian neighbours who are apparently free to practise their own without scrutiny - is just another assertion.

In an Asian region where Chinese and Indian minorities in Malaysia and Indonesia have long been subjected to racial discrimination, and where Japan is notable for a deeply institutionalised racism/racialism, the focus of Asian politicians and subservient Asian media on Australian racism serves to deflect attention from Asia`s abiding racist realities. Malaysia, Indonesia and Japan are only three examples.

In Japan over the past few years, the Governor of Tokyo, Ishihara, has declared that Koreans (really Japanese people, born in Japan, of Korean descent who are denied automatic citizenship because their `Korean blood`) `will riot in the event of another earthquake` and encouraged the Japanese police and military to `deal with` them. The Governor evoked memories of an earthquake over 65 years ago when some Koreans were murdered by their Japanese neighbours after they were falsely accused of poisoning wells among other alleged crimes.

Lurid headlines on newspapers, magazines and TV programs regarding `Foreigner Crime` further feed racism. The biggest `crime` foreigners commit here is visa-overstaying - illegal but hardly deserving of the xenopohobic hysteria being fuelled here by politicians in ways both unashamed and more subtle.

Racialist progaganda regarding `Japanese blood` is the norm here, epitomised by politicians such as the Foreign Minister Aso making a public speech about `Unique Japanese, of one blood`, `We Japanese park our cars the same way, we tie our shoelaces the same way`, etc. Foolish nonsense about a people who are of mixed Mongolian/Chinese/Korean ethnicity but it serves to place non-Japanese Asians in a position of inferiority and intensify prejudice here against all `Gaijin` - outside people.

These things are only the tip of the iceberg in Japan. Japanese (and Asian) politicians need to start addressing their own countries` racism as well as noting Australia`s.
Posted by worldoflight, Saturday, 24 December 2005 1:48:19 PM
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"Fred Nile lives on the beachfront overlooking the beach and his wife does not wear a neck to knee swimsuit, nor does his family members. In fact the family wear the same as everyone else on the beach. The only reason Fred would have used the term was to overcome the abuse your Anglo-pest caused.

Posted by Philo, Saturday, 24 December 2005 7:49:11 AM"

Fred used this concept in his address to parliament. I read the transcript some years ago. I don't claim to have total recall, but I do remember that Fred got a bit carried away when he didn't get the level of support he had hoped for in his failed bid to stop all public nude bathing in NSW. He was particularly upset at Franca Arena for [in Fred's opinion] not representing the "ethnic community" and at Richard Jones for stating that he went to free beaches [clothes optional]. Possibly also at Elizabeth Kirby for saying that she had enjoyed going to a free beach.

I have found the following:
http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/hansart.nsf/V3Key/LC19961204005
This is Fred speaking on behalf of the religious right Call to Australia Party and the Islamic Council of New South Wales on how all Australians should be forced by law to follow his line.

I have not personally found most Australians to be particularly racist, but I think it is natural to be wary of any group, whether or not they are defined by race and/or religion, who try to force their attitudes down everyone else's throat.

In matters of beach wear, as in probably most other situations where those who feel differently aren't forced to be part of it, I am pro-choice and I see this as basically the traditional Australian way. Isn't this what we call giving everyone a fair go?
Posted by Rex, Saturday, 24 December 2005 5:08:13 PM
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Did anyone see Laurie Oakes' comments

Have a read....

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=77600
Posted by Opinionated2, Saturday, 24 December 2005 5:43:43 PM
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So . . . I read Laurie Oakes.
It's the usual Laurie sitting on the fence, not saying much.
Posted by GlenWriter, Saturday, 24 December 2005 5:48:32 PM
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Bozzie, thank you for your brilliant analysis on Barns article, we need more rational debate on both sides if we are to see any ground made, but appears only one party is coming to the table and that is the party that supports and understands what a lot of Australians are thinking, and that is that we in Australia are a decent,tolerant,law abiding, gifted young nation, made up of many races from all over the world who for all the rhetoric about racism get along pretty darn good, and that we have created a life here that is the envy of the rest of the world, and who would want that to change, I mean ask yourself would any country in the world who has what we have, would they voluntarly give up their way of life for a minorities religous and cultral doctrines, we are talking the complete and total rejection of our country and it's way of life by a minority that hunts in such large packs that it feels like the majority, why why why would you expect any persons/people or country to just roll over and take that ?, please don't just ridicule and label me, help me to understand, is it all a right wing conspiracy ?, are there any truths to what people are saying ?, and if so how do we handle them, what should we do to further accomadate these people, ban all things that are cultrally offensive ?, put the flag away for good ?, never sing the national anthem ?, all take up the islamic faith ?.......am I going to far ? yes of course I am !, that my friends is how it feels when you people go to far and will not be realistic in your debates, you are all playing a dangerous game with the psyche of poeple in this country, tell a person enough times that he is bad when he is not, and they will eventually prove you right.....is that the aim here ??
Anyway to all a MERRY XMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR
Posted by VGC, Saturday, 24 December 2005 5:51:05 PM
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Left Lurching Laurie's Lamentable lecture lists loser's lies.
Posted by keith, Saturday, 24 December 2005 7:16:25 PM
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Pericles "So the overwhelming opinion of posters here are around 80% think Barnes is a scumbag<<

Yes Col, isn't it interesting that 80% of the responses are ad hominem attacks on the author."

So you would rather waste your time and posting allocation defending the asinine and puerile writings of a scumbag like Greg Barnes and ignore the fair challenge to comment on how Australia rates in comparative racist scales to other nations -

I guess that says alot about the "depth" and "quality" of your posts too or are you just too far up yourself to agree with me?.
Posted by Col Rouge, Saturday, 24 December 2005 7:20:32 PM
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Merry Christmas everyone!

And to celebrate both Christmas and the 100th posting on this thread, I am offering some suitable yuletide humour: (see next post)
Posted by Ev, Sunday, 25 December 2005 1:43:47 AM
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Why is getting Christmas presents for your kids just like a day at the
office?

Because you do all the work and the fat guy in the suit gets all the
credit.
Posted by Ev, Sunday, 25 December 2005 1:44:25 AM
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Ev

Loved your joke.

I'm off to Ballarat to deliver a load of presents to my niece and nephew. Trying very hard to wake up.

Guess I'm forfilling the materialistic part of Australianism, however I did do something a bit different this year - I funded a live chicken each on behalf of my niece and nephew as part of Care Australia (overseas aid organisation). My niece & nephew have a certificate acknowledging their live contribution to less fortunate children than themselves. I hope that this way they will feel involved in helping others.

To all a merry christmas.

Dianne
Posted by Scout, Sunday, 25 December 2005 5:14:13 AM
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we should all feel pity for barnsey who seems a very lonely embittered man pining for the fjords (dead parrot style). by chance a friend of mine has looked inside barnsey's diary and this is what he has planned for christmas day:

*4.00 wallow in self-pity

*4.30 stare into the abyss

*5.00 solve world hunger

*5.30 jazzercise

*6.00 dinner with me.....i cant break that engagement again

*6.30 wrestle with my self loathing

*7.00 lie on bed and slip slowly into madness
Posted by vinny, Sunday, 25 December 2005 6:07:59 PM
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Poor old Greg is off the planet!I was fortunate to have managed a cotton farm in Queensland many years ago, and I found most of the staff who were of ethnic origin to be good workers and got on exceptionally well with the members of the staff who were Australian.The only problem I found was I had to cater the working conditions along cultural lines.

For example the Negroid types had a tendancy to want to fornicate in the open fields whilst picking cotton, so I had to build little sheds every few hundred metres so they could hide away so to speak.

The Indians and Pakistanis were a little better once we took away there little bells and bongo drums they fitted in very well.

Of course our biggest problems were with the English workers not only did they want breaks,they wanted money for luxuries like food and clothes.The ungrateful dolts also wanted to orginise into unions.

Oh yes Gregy was right on,and the right wing cracker jacks that post on this forum all must go round with there heads shoved up there arses.I know I can't spell and my grammer is up the sh@# but I do know where my local library is.Racism is alive and well in Australia and has been since 1788
Posted by PHILB, Sunday, 25 December 2005 8:46:46 PM
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Col, I honestly didn't expect you to understand, but I thought it might be worth a shot.

>>So you would rather waste your time and posting allocation defending the asinine and puerile writings of a scumbag like Greg Barnes and ignore the fair challenge to comment on how Australia rates in comparative racist scales to other nations<<

It clearly escaped your notice - probably because you were having trouble with the red mists at the time - that I didn't actually comment on Greg's piece at all, only on the responses to it. It is a far too subtle distinction for you to comprehend, I know, but you really ought to try a little harder occasionally.

My observations were twofold. (That is, there were two of them Col). First, that it is eminently possible to love a person, country or thing and at the same time to criticize it. Many of the posts assume that if you dislike some aspect of Australia, you should by definition choose to live somewhere else. I think this is a pathetic cop-out.

The second observation was that the vast majority of posters decided that in lieu of disagreeing with the sentiment of the piece, they would bucket the author, and that in my experience this was a symptom of knee-jerk emotion rather than sober and constructive thought.

You seem to think that these observations of mine deserve the same treatment, which is your right.

But you then ask me instead to address "the fair challenge to comment on how Australia rates in comparative racist scales to other nations"

You yourself rated Australia as being perhaps just the teensiest bit racist. In doing so, you find yourself in some level of agreement with Greg. Only the quantity - and it is, as you admit, a personal assessment - differs.

As the old story has it, "we both agree what you are, now we are simply discussing the price."
Posted by Pericles, Sunday, 25 December 2005 10:13:24 PM
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your absolutely right philb, australia is a racist country full of redneck racists.

pound for pound the biggest racists are those pesky aboriginals.......they hate us white folk with a passion......the ingrates, after all we done for them.

apparently those lebs run a close second and they keep attacking white people without provocation.

and i haven't even mentioned the whole serbs V croats thing and dont get me started on that greeks V macedonian hoohaa.
Posted by vinny, Monday, 26 December 2005 6:33:10 AM
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I have shared a mug of home made wine after loading tobbaco near Bundaberg with people who came from Italy.
Have cousins by marridge from Germany Malta France and Isreal, have worked with people from all over this world.
Raceist backwater? no fools like this bloke are not worth the read.
But is it ok to say just what most Australians think?
Is it ok to fear SOME Lebanese Muslims act like raceists towards us?
Or must we not tell the truth? can the word asimilation be a bad one?
Posted by Belly, Monday, 26 December 2005 7:06:51 AM
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Pericles - Indeed I did rate aspects of Australian society as having racist tendencies, to a far less extent than any other society.

That is absolutely true.

Yet Barnes lathers and spits about how terrible we are and how we should all wear sack cloth and my view is - since in my model of the world I am an individual and not responsible for the actions of morons, I am not responsible for racists thugs any more than I am responsible for supercilious ponces who assume the air of the knowall socialist elite.

As for

""we both agree what you are, now we are simply discussing the price."

Oh you obviously do not know who I am - however the analogy is useful - you being so accustomed to having to "pay" for what I have only received in the spirit of love and respect.

I have often wondered who is more diminished by such an exchange - those desperate for money or those so desperate for human contact they have to "buy" it - or maybe just paying for it imparts some sense of "control" - its "pathetic" either way.
Posted by Col Rouge, Monday, 26 December 2005 7:47:21 AM
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Love Greg Barnes - or hate him,we must concede the man has GUTS !That he be so bold to call a spade for what it is, has exploded the myth we are a generation of partriots - quote 'pigs'.How many of us have the fortitude to articulate our soul's ?

We live in 'fairy-land 'mannipulated by our erstwhile Political masters, who GB has painfully sought to appropriate squarely and fairly..the blame - for all the malaise, divisiveness, racial-inequality, xenophobia,'hansonism' etc that is strangling the life out of this wonderful Nation, we call home.

Young Greg has a cv that would shame some of his outraged detractors. He has walked the corridors of Power; witnessed what most of us dream about. He is no slough among the ' movers-and-shakers ' of our elite Government. Simply put he has "been-there-and-done-that".

Some of his denigrators shouln't be offended nor 'maintain their rage'. It is not the first time he has 'taken the mickey' at his readers. His chutpah and seemingly bold rhetoric is lampooning our sense of identity. Taken with a grain of prozac, manages to convey their misplaced idealism, inferiority complex, cultural-cringe, and ersatz jingoism ! By draping oneself in the National flag, doesn't automatically make one a 'true-blue' ozzie battler ?

Basically,in one critical barb, he has apportioned the entire fiasco of our day of infamY " CRONULLA.DEC 11/05 " where it rightfully belong - at our pollies. We can skirt the facts willy-nilly, and blame the 'gullible pawns, religion, multiculturalism, migration, whatever - as the 'shock-jocks', and Prof Blainey have so eloquently inflamed. Truth is, none of us had any say in the mechanisation of Government. We apathetically chose to ELECT THE PRETENDERS to the Lodge.

As GB points out successive PM's, Gough Whitlam, Hawke, Keating, Fraser and JH have all in one way or another, imposed their collective 'enlightenment' on the electorate with such cataclysmic results.

They never imagined their enshrined policies would implode in the suburbs; that ghetto's, gang-warfare, yobboism, and a multitude of social, economic and pyschological dilemma's would one day surface to haunt them.

continued :
Posted by dalma, Monday, 26 December 2005 9:47:10 AM
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Their egocentric megalomamia 'created' this impasse. By 'killing the messenger ' we have really lost the plot.This commonly practiced characteristic is so typical of our 'psyche' as opposed to 'rational debate'.

Specifics: After Tianaman Square, blubbering Hawke opened the flood-gates on immigration. In one 'tear-jerked' charade, he granted asylum to 15,000 oversea's students studying here. Instant visa's and welfare cheques on an overburdened taxpayer - such largesse ?
Fast forward - family reunions multiplied exponentially.

Gough 'papa' Whitlam and his Treasurer undermined the Reserve Bank, secretly exploring avenues to by-pass a 'double dissolution' in the Senate. The 'Kimlani Affair' reputed worth tens-of-millions erupted in his face, when the 'Dubai Consortum' was leaked to the Press. Mr Kimlani - shonk broker, and chief negotiator wanted exorbitant 'fees' for his heist - amounting to almost 10 % commission. All hell broke loose.

Gough besotted with everything Greek, arranged with his Minister Al Grassby to open the dam-gates on Greek/Macedonian/Turkish/Algerian
migration. Once again, family reunions and the Welfare paradigm took precedence. High rise ghetto's rehashed as 'housing estates' sprang up all over Melbourne. The Greek enclave is the largest in the World outside Helles.

JWH, in line with G Bush's "Guantanamo Bay " razor-wire/land-mined prison establishments, created off shore Nauru, Christmas Island where imprisoned Afghan's, Iraqi's, Pakistani's etc languished for 6/9 years at millions of taxpayer's dollars.The 'woman-and-children-overboard' saga of Peter Reith's fertile imagination, followed by the Tampa's doppleganger roused World condemnation.

In an about face, Amanda Vanstone granted 98% of evacuees - visa'a, accomodation,Social security cheques for the 'psychological trauma 'or PTSD after their ordeal.A classical case of over-reaction after Cornelia Rowe and Filipina were deported, even though they were dinky-di.

Amid all the Govt hype, can you believe these people are grateful for Amanda's taxpayer funded benevolence.Would there be any 'love' lost.You have got to ask where these 'social-engineers' get there idealism from.

My guess is, they graduated from college,got there degree's, joined the Public Service, and became instant experts.

Cheers.
Posted by dalma, Monday, 26 December 2005 10:33:06 AM
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Greg

I listened to Greg Carey interviewing you on Radio 4BC Brisbane. You sounded even less convincing than your article. Greg Carey ran rings around you.
Posted by kalweb, Monday, 26 December 2005 3:40:20 PM
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" pound for pound the biggest racists are those pesky aboriginals ".

Hey Vinny,
Pray tell which aboriginals are you referring to,I can only assume you obviously don't mean Australian aboriginals?.Are these the same aboriginals that have been treated no better than cattle, lynched in trees,whipped and beaten for looking at a white women,or stolen something to eat, had their children stolen,refused a job for their aboriginality,refused accomadation, a drink in a white mans pub, had their culture and land stolen,been taunted relentlessly by some arse hole calling them boong nigger coon,(the list goes on)been killed held in police custody,been bribed for their vote by plying them with wine that came in forty four gallon drums,(yes western australia fact)the same aboriginals we judge by our own european culture,accuse them of being lazy because they don't share our own work ethic.?

I could go on but I am sure you are getting my drift.But of course this all happened such a long time ago.Yea right!

If not I humbly apologise
Posted by PHILB, Monday, 26 December 2005 7:58:57 PM
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All the examples set out by PHILB of injustices faced by Aboriginal population can be matched by much worse atrocities done by 'whites' on 'whites'. Which makes makes me wonder what Greg Barns and PHILB would have in store for us 'white' people. Perhaps they could devise some Pol Pot style punishment.

Looking at history, European culture has a brutal history to its own people and non-europeans. But history is brutal in any culture. Get over it. Why dwell on it?
Posted by davo, Monday, 26 December 2005 8:37:48 PM
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"Pol Pot style of punishment"

Get over it! Why dwell on it! Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it.Who said that.? Who cares.? You speak like we are talking about something that only happened hundreds/thousands of years ago.Ive got a hot flash for you buddy it is happening as I tap away at this p.c.So the Nazi war crims should have been left to escape into obscurity,I mean hey why dwell on it?Get over it!.And back at you buddy Pol Pot,this prick was propt up by the American government for years,probably supplied the guns and machetes to the arse wipe.And what about one of the more colorful characters of debauchery Idi Amin,left to live out his life in luxury last I read, Saudi Arabia,or was it Libya I forget.But hey who cares?why dwell on it.

Racist scoudrels have always had an excuse for their actions,and it is always the victims who are told hey dont dwell on it,get over it.And please don't assume what style of punishment I intend for anyone,because they have a warped sense of what is right and wrong.I shouldn't really be replying to the tosh you served up,but you already know that.
Posted by PHILB, Monday, 26 December 2005 10:06:22 PM
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Racism doesn't occur in countries with only one race. There's a rather strong correlation between multiracialism and racism. Behold...

1. The racism in Indonesia is between Chinese immigrants and native Indonesians.

2. The racism in the US southeast is between Whites and Blacks.

3. The racism in the US southwest is partly between Whites and Mexicans and partly between Mexicans and Blacks.

4. The racism in Europe is between Whites and any of several species of Black, Brown, or Imitation-White.

Nowhere do you find racism without a mixture of races.

There are occasions with common sense leads one astray. Once in a great while, the counterintuitive idea is correct. But most of the time, the obvious answer is the right answer, and this is probably one of those times. Racial mixture causes racism. Racial mixture has never led to anything except trouble. And when you find any person or organization hell-bent on promoting (or requiring) racial mixture, you have usually also found someone who wants trouble to happen.

Even if it were true that a Black is as good as a White - and for my purpose here it isn't necessary that I give my opinion about that - then the opposite would also be true: a White is as good as a Black. What, then, is the problem liberals have with all-White countries? If the Whites want to be racially segregated, then for what purpose do leftists go to such lengths to deny the Whites their wish?

Notice that presently, and for some time now, the countries targeted for an influx of third-world immigrants have been White countries. Does Japan have this problem? Would Japan be better off if someone were to dump a million Africans on them? Is there some defect in Japanese culture that requires the contributions of a million Africans to repair? If there's no such defect in Japanese culture, then there's probably none in Australian or American cultures, either. And yet the lefties are pumping in the third-worlders just as fast as they can, aren't they? Why?
Posted by Jenab, Tuesday, 27 December 2005 4:45:41 AM
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Why is it that Pauline Hanson went to jail at about the very moment that she'd begun to win the hearts and minds of Australians? Yeah, I know there's some legal pretext or other. There always is. But the real reason, I think, is she scared the powers that be. So they removed her from the game by cheating.

You'll have noticed that the violence on the Cornulla beach was no big deal to the Australian government or to the media while the Lebs were winning. Lebs raped Aussie girls - the government looked the other way. Lebs beat up lifeguards - the government looked the other way. Racial violence got to be an issue only when the Aussies took back the beach, even though they turned out for only one, single day.

Racial villification laws are gag orders for White truth tellers. Tell the truth: go to jail. Show the truth in an unedited video: go to jail. Warn your White mates about a Leb gang on the move: go to jail.

Politically, the laws against racial vilification don't work in the other direction, which means the law has prejudged Whites to be the villains. Lebs can tell the truth, or they can lie to their hearts' content - either way, the police don't arrest them for it. They can make videos and show them, with or without editorial monkeyshines, and the police will leave them alone. And nobody cites Lebs for racial villification when they incite attacks on White people.

And it's unbelievable how the media lie about race relations. I'm an American, and although I suspected from the start that the media weren't being honest about Cornulla, I could be certain about it only after I'd rushed to an online introduction service and got myself a dozen penpals near Sydney and had them tell me the story by email.
Posted by Jenab, Tuesday, 27 December 2005 4:51:16 AM
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Never forget its the weapon of the left to lie, yes to introduce miss information into debate to prove the idiot ideas they hold are true.
This raceist cryed for joy as Nelson Mandeala became leader of SA.
Gave too much after boxing day 2004 and went hungry for a week because of it.
This raceist Aussie fears some Muslim raceism and relidgious bigotry.
And fears some Muslim Lebanese who add criminal behavior that that list.
Room exists for truth always.
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 27 December 2005 6:05:06 AM
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phil baby,

you obviously haven't had the pleasure of living near aboriginals otherwise your comments would be more restrained.

let's face facts, our natives are mostly incapable of adapting to a western style civilisation and this explains why they have lived on the outskirts of our towns for 200 years.......hence our attitudes towards them has been paternalistic.

i suspect there is a genetic reason why aboriginals cant adapt to a modern lifestyle but this probably makes me a racist in your eyes for saying so.

you complain when natives are barred from entering a pub but then complain when their given 44 gallon drums of plonk......you cant have it both ways. why shouldn't some natives be banned from a pub?? many people are banned usually for being troublemakers and this is why natives are banned from pubs in country areas.......you should see what happens when natives get on the grog, they go absolutely troppo and carry on like savage baboons.

in my opinion the only hope for our natives is if the chilren are sent to boarding school where they would receive proper care and a good education which would enable them to integrate into white society.

the old policy of saving native children from a barbaric savage stone age culture was a good one and should be started up again.
Posted by vinny, Tuesday, 27 December 2005 6:48:37 AM
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Lenab,you are so right.The left wing journos have a strangle hold on our media too.They go from the nurturing environs of home ,too school,listen to mostly left wing teachers,to uni and listen to mostly left wing lecturers.Most have never tasted the reality running a small private enterprise organisation.

People like Greg Barns are the result of such a slanted system,and we have been turning them out by the thousands.The silent majority know the reality but we get shouted down with labels such as "racist" so they can protect their PC ideals and cover up the mess they have created in our society.That is why they scream so loud and long,since finally the the general public see through their lies and distortions.

There is a new awakening and news papers like the Herald are starting to see it's sales drop off.That is why they also slag off talk back radio as being populist,ill informed and full of "Rednecks" since people talk about the facts and reality as it affects them.Our Govt lies about crime stats and just tries to cover the whole mess up by punishing and blaming the victims and this further incites the situation.

Crime has got so bad in Sydney.I learned yesterday that my nephew has spent a week in hospital,bashed and robbed he never knew who hit him.The lefty weakness has destroyed our police force and made our judiciary impotent.It is an absolute debacle!
Posted by Arjay, Tuesday, 27 December 2005 7:14:28 AM
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Cronulla and Maroubra was not about white supremacy, so we must be careful not to identify the problem merely as a "White's" problem. It was not intrinsically a colour problem it was sparked by what most Australians consider a criminal cultural problem founded in Lebanese Muslim attitudes that has been ignored by the will of Government for years. We do not have problems with black African refugees or Indian settlers or even Lebanese practising Christians in Australia. The attitude is isolated to a cultural gang of Lebanese Muslims who despise our culture as inferior and they consider Aussie women degrade themselves as sluts by their undress.

The Cronulla protesters were typical Australians, other than a few White supremasists who hijacked the protest with violence. The real attitudes of supremacy was previously present in the cultural minds of Lebanese Muslim youth, who despised our Australian beach culture; culminating in the assult of surf life savers who in the minds of these Muslim youth had trespassed into an area they identified as their beach area.

"Get off our beach" was the retort to the life savers before the Muslim youth assult. So this is how they identified and saw the problem. Surf Life Savers are there for the protection of the whole beach area. This is the culminating point of the conflict!

It is this attitude that Australians consider as selfish criminal behaviour that has been condoned and not actively condemned by the Government and activist Muslim leaders. This attitude might be foreign to our values, but any action even if considered criminal to the West is acceptable if ultimately fulfills the rule of Allah's laws. This is a commonly used strategy in the Muslim arsenal to gain territory, and they have now conned the Government to give hundreds of thousands of Dollars to train Muslim life guards, while the Government has given little to the training of existing Surf Life Saving Clubs. Yet these Clubs are open and welcomed all who will comitt to its disciplined training and service.
Posted by Philo, Tuesday, 27 December 2005 7:17:56 AM
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[cont]
However consider Australia has no problem with Turkish Muslim youth, so the problem is localised to one tribal / cultural group that is too proud to socialise as equal and assimilate into all aspects of Australian culture. They have been fed the line that their religious law is supreme and must rule in all the Earth. They are the cultural supremists who consider anything else is abominable to Allah.
Posted by Philo, Tuesday, 27 December 2005 7:19:40 AM
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On Wednesday 14th December, I received an email that told me that,to be a good Aussie, I should make sure to be at Cronulla the following weekend to show those f#!@$ing Lebbos just who owns this country. Why,all those dead Anzacs must be turning over in their f @#$@!ing graves to see all those f54632ing muslims raping our women. I called the police to see whether they needed any info from the email but they said that they had hundreds of such emails and they told me not to answer it. I didn't.
On Sunday 18th December, I attended a "Rally Against Racism" with my Quaker Friends. It really sounded like an election rally for it seems that the whole thing is John Howard's fault !
On Sunday 25th I celebrated Christmas Day with my ordinary Australian family who have no interest in politics whatever. I was very surprised to hear general agreement with the notion that, "If they're not happy here,they can just go back to where they came from."
On Tuesday 27th December, I read Greg Barnes's article and only a few of the 120 comments.
As a Quaker, I wonder how we can spend so much time and energy in laying blame but doing nothing to change anything.
Firstly, we need to identify what it is we are talking about. Is it racism or fear or selfishness or ignorance or religion or politics or some terrifying combination of them all?
Posted by fran, Tuesday, 27 December 2005 2:58:35 PM
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It was hardly surprising to note on the third day of Christmas that Greg Barns had set the cat amongst the pigeons - 121 posts and counting! Sadly in Tasmania's major newspaper we got a spray from the one and only Lew Bretz. Lew comes across as intolerant, narrow-minded and hellbent on undermining Greg Barns. But what really bemused me (and still does) was the recent attempt by Rupert and Co. to make Lew an addendum while Packerman (sic) was on leave. A bold move but one that came at a price. Methinks these men (Bretz and Akerman) are extreme and their contributions are downright unhealthy. Barns, however, is courageous, wise, goes into bat for the downtrodden and probably doesn’t sleep as well as Bretz and Akerman. Here’s my New Year’s resolution - when you spot the words Bretz and/or Akerman in your newspaper – turn the page. I find it very therapeutic!
Posted by John Andrewartha, Tuesday, 27 December 2005 3:42:27 PM
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Col

>>Oh you obviously do not know who I am<<

Should I?
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 27 December 2005 6:57:06 PM
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Pericles,
I am schocked, you don't know who Col Rouge is...honestly, you honestly don't know who this great man, a legend in his own lunchtime is. His intellect should give you some clue, think about it...you still can't place him. Ok I'll put you out of your misery mate, he is the janitor/groundsman at the Cronulla State Primary School, I have worked this out by the rubbish he peddals on this forum. Oh by the way Col the reason none has responded to your inane list of racist countries, isn't because we all agree with you, it is because most of us here are interested in intellegent discussion, now there is a descriptive phrase you might like to check out at the school library on one of your long breaks...
Posted by SHONGA, Tuesday, 27 December 2005 8:56:08 PM
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Friedrich, Sorry old mate, I had thought you were a fellow visitor from the same planet, in WW11 we would have classified you as an allien, I naturally assumed you knew each other as you both spew the same bigoted crap. How is the KKK these days alvive and well I trust.
My grandfather arrived in Australia in the early 1900's, and immediately encountered our racism, as have all immigrants, the Italians, Greeks, Kiwi's etc. When it comes to gangs, they have also been apart of Australian culture for 200 years. What is needed in Sydney, is for the police to police. Whether it be a Lebenise, Italian or English gang, if they break the law arrest and change them, it shouldn't matter a damm what race the gang is, in my mind that should be irrelevent, what is relevent is if they break the law, as a society, the criminals get locked up, by the way my grandfather was English.
Posted by SHONGA, Tuesday, 27 December 2005 9:14:06 PM
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fran,

this is the usual tactic of the left wingers.......try to spin things around and some how make it all johnnie howard's fault.

it's their deranged and perverted policies which created this mess in the first place but they dont have the courage to acknowledge it so they engage in the blame shifting game and howard is a convenient scapegoat.

it wouldn't surprise me if that anti racism rally was organised by the usual suspects.
Posted by vinny, Wednesday, 28 December 2005 5:43:54 AM
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The use of anti-defamation laws to promote lies and suppress truth is quite pronounced in countries where such laws exist. The reason for the misuse is that they are combined with the theory of racial equality. The races aren't equal because nature was never required to produce equal races, but the liberals have successfully gained a legal endorsement of their false doctrine.

In the United States, the FBI actually collects data by which you can prove that the races are unequal. And, by combining this data with demographic information from the Census Bureau, you can prove that neither poverty nor the degree of urbanization can explain why some races commit more crimes, per capita, than other races do.

http://jabpage.org/features/racestat/racestat.html

I wish that Australia would also collect race-related crime statistics. I'd be willing to wager a bit that your Lebs have per capita rates for the perpetration of violent crimes that's at least five times the Aussie rate. Of course, for such statistics to mean anything, your police will have to start taking notice when Lebs commit crimes. Maybe you can motivate them somehow?
Posted by Jenab, Wednesday, 28 December 2005 6:41:06 AM
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Pericles “Should I? “
– No – no reason at all –
Since, I am not “for sale”, You would, from reading your previous posts, have no interest in me at all.

Shonga “intellegent discussion,” –

ah Shonga – you have created, in your case an oxymoron.

However, true to form, you failed to spell “intelligent” correctly – I guess janitorial duties must challenge the ceiling of your competency.

If you do agree with my assertions regarding relative racism, why are you drooling over the opportunity to cast dispersions my way?

Maybe we should rename you “stumpy” – lacking in strength and length as well as IQ!

(G.Y. now we are “even”).
Posted by Col Rouge, Wednesday, 28 December 2005 8:10:59 AM
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Folk in glass houses, Col, should be very, very careful when handling stones.

It is clear that it is your style to go for the man rather than the ball. But when you sneer at Shonga for her spelling, shouldn't you at the same time make sure that your contributions are faultlessly presented?

>>why are you drooling over the opportunity to cast dispersions my way?<<

Dispersions, Col? Most educated folk would call them aspersions.

And in case you want to pretend that this is a typing error - or even claim that it is satirical - there are dozens of similar solecisms in your ragbag of contributions, which I will happily list for you should you protest.

As to the topic at hand, your ramblings make no sense either:

>>Since, I am not “for sale”, You would, from reading your previous posts, have no interest in me at all.<<

The point, which you sidestep by pretending to misunderstand the allusion, is that you are yourself a racist. Self-confessed.

By admitting this, you find yourself in broad agreement with Greg Barns, who posited that Australians are, by and large, racist.

It is nonsense to then use "but I'm not as racist as other folk" as a defense, as if being relatively more or less racist is a factor.

Being "less racist" is like being only partly pregnant.
Posted by Pericles, Wednesday, 28 December 2005 9:35:17 AM
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Pericles, I'm interested in the idea's around

'It is nonsense to then use "but I'm not as racist as other folk" as a defense, as if being relatively more or less racist is a factor.

Being "less racist" is like being only partly pregnant.'

I understand your comment in concept but am not convinced that it reflects the reality of the way people think and react.

There have been a variety of posts about the topic of racism, I've seen plenty of agreement that most of us experience forms of it at some time or other. My impression is that the main conflict is what do we do about it.

- Some appear to argue that we should embrace it and seem to say that because we look after the relatives first when the chips are down and resources are tight that racism is a good thing and should be embraced all the time.
- Others of us argue that it is a response which we should seek to put behind us. Like childish temper tantrums it is something we should strive to grow out of. Something which we can train ourselves into or out of.

Any form of racism is a bad thing but as with most things there are degree's of it and different levels of impact. The overt racist is happy for discrimination and harm to befall people of races they don't approve of just because of their race, the milder form may whilst harboring some views about their own or other races still reject any attempts for those views to be translated into action which harms another because of their race.

I have not followed Col's posts on race issues closely but his general focus is on individual responsibility, not an approach which allows a lot of space for group blame.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Wednesday, 28 December 2005 12:41:42 PM
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Pericles “It is nonsense to then use "but I'm not as racist as other folk" as a defense, as if being relatively more or less racist is a factor.

Being "less racist" is like being only partly pregnant”

What a load of garbage!

Your claim that being “racist” is akin to being pregnant is delusional twaddle.

The point of comparison is not the simplistic absolute which you contrive to promote (an obtuse black-white context) but an almost infinitely graduated scale of measured tolerance / intolerance.

Hence, the correct analogy is, as I suggested, a comparative scale incremented in variable levels of “racial tolerance”.

In this context if you select almost any group of people, at random from the general Australian community you will find varying degrees of “tolerance” as much to racial as to many other issues and if you compare that Australian “racial tolerance” to other ethnic or national groups, you will find Australia has a higher “tolerance” or inversely a “low intolerance” quotient compared to most other nations. Hence, Barnes’ grossly offensive categorisation of Australia projects his own self loathing which is unrepresentative and uncharacteristic of us who actually take some pride in being called “Australian”.

And on the matter of spelling – it is “defence” not “defense”.
I guess that is a good example of some wannabe “elitist black pot” calling me a “kettle”.

Robert “I have not followed Col's posts on race issues closely but his general focus is on individual responsibility, not an approach which allows a lot of space for group blame.”

Exactly Robert!

Whilst we are all individually susceptible to racist tendencies, we are all individually responsible for managing them / curtailing them.

Hence, Barnes & his ilk, in using a broad brush to tar us all “racists” (pretending we all feed from the same trough of socialist swill), presents a morally offensive proposition akin to the KKK pretending they represent my views and interests simply because I happen to be “white”.
Posted by Col Rouge, Wednesday, 28 December 2005 2:59:27 PM
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131 posts so far – not bad even if that means I feel like a johnny come lately (no offence - I'm not here to blame that Johnny).

Racism is indeed endemic, here as well as just about anywhere else you look around the globe. Frankly I cannot see the point in denying it but unlike some I don’t see it as a black and white issue – there are degrees of racism from the virulent genocidal to the very mild feelings that are rarely if ever given expression.

The focus surely must be on how it is managed. Humans have always been suspicious of difference of which race is only one sort. Religion is another obvious example. I see whilst some posters give examples of societies that have well recognised race problems, there does not appear to be much recognition of the fact that amongst whites other differences have led to centuries of hate and butchery – Protestant v Catholic; Catholic v Huguenots; Christian v Jew. White western nations and states have spent centuries fighting one another. When I was a boy the gangs of Rockers that fought the Surfies were not of any particular ethnic or religious persuasion. The ones I knew on both sides of the “conflict” were good ole Anglo-Aussies.

The point is anything that leads to conflict and strife ought, in civilised societies especially, be discouraged and outbreaks condemned.

In Greg's defence - I don’t see that because he feels disgusted about the behaviour of his fellow countrymen that that makes him a self-loather and somebody who ought to ship out. Greg appears from his picture and name to be of Anglo background. It is clear some of you loathe him and yet you too are of Anglo descent – does your disgust with him (and others of a similar background that hold similar views) mean ipso facto you are self loathing? I don’t think so...but then again...

Modifieddog
Posted by ModifiedDog, Wednesday, 28 December 2005 5:38:19 PM
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Well said, Modifieddog. It is good to find someone like you on this thread.

I saw the film, Good Night, and Good Luck, this afternoon. It was about the undoing of Senator Joe MacCarthy by a TV news presenter at CBS. (Real story, I think) I thought there was at least one message for those posters who tried to malign Greg Barns - to dissent is not to be disloyal.

There is lot in that film that mirrors what has happened in Bush's America - the manufacture of fear to achieve his political ends (or those of his chief advisors.) And I think there are a lot of of us in australia who are convinced that that was what Howard did on the children overboard episode.

But most of all, the film shows that speaking up on issues which are important to the nation, but which happen to run counter to the populist fervour, will in the end do us all a lot of good.

Chek
Posted by Chek, Wednesday, 28 December 2005 8:42:06 PM
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Col Rouge, You really don't get it do you mate, if you are unable to understand the pregnant analogy try substituting pregnant with peaodphile, and see if that works for you. I dare say most of us know that you can't be a little bit pregnant, you are either racist, or you are not. Some of us are not, if you are why not come clean and say so. There are many more racists than non-racists, so you will be well defended, grow a spine, and tell the truth. The truth for some of us is that we have no particular axe to grind with any race, only criminals of all races. If they commit a crime, either lock them up or deport them, as criminals are people we have an oversupply of, we need more good citizens, if you can make a constructive statement as to how you believe that may be achieved, please bare your soul, the community is always looking for innovative ideas. Perhaps an intergration course should be mandatory for new immigrants, informing them of what is expected from them, perhaps a 2 year good behaviour bond, which if broken would mean deportment, let's try to get some positive constructive solutions, instead of argueing among ourselves.
Posted by SHONGA, Wednesday, 28 December 2005 9:35:36 PM
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how many of the "non racists" crack jokes about Americans?? racists all of ya ...

Get of this racist rant its garbage. Racism to me is spitting on people or beating them up over skin colour, for the only reason that they are that colour.

If you think Cronulla was racist you actully need to look at the long tolerance of the Anglos in Sydney, and re think who the racists (or intolerants or what ever word is faddish atm) really are.

The bad attitude is coming, as usual,world wide politically and socially , from the islamic adgenda.
Posted by meredith, Wednesday, 28 December 2005 11:31:25 PM
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You aren't supposed to evaluate a statement by whether it is racist, or by the degree to which it is racist. You're supposed to evaluate it by whether it is true or false. The judgment about its significance comes after the judgment about its truthfulness, not before.

** In 1995, Black residents of the United States were ten times more likely to commit murder than was the average White American. Furthermore, a typical Black was 24 times more likely to kill a White than the reverse. Because of race-motivated political corruption in law enforcement, a White caught harming a Black was five times more likely to be accused of a "hate crime" than a Black caught harming a White. Nonetheless, Blacks committed so many crimes eligible for "hate crime" status that they had four times the per capita rate for perpetrating "hate crimes," as compared with Whites. **

Those statements are all true, and they are racist. Racism can be the truth. When racism and political correctness are in conflict, the racism is usually the truth, and the political correctness is usually either a polite fiction or a subversive lie.
Posted by Jenab, Thursday, 29 December 2005 1:12:14 AM
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i always thought racism was actully being repulsed by skin colour and physical features, the other disliking was judgment on a personal or general scale.

Jenab you do have a point there tho, if the "stats" conflict with the PC dogma its attacked by callign it racist. Most people don't like to be labelled as a racist. So the name calling works.

Well on some people, me, i am not worried what the left call me, i feel fine saying islam is vile and pathetic.

Its the word tolerance that spins me out, its instantly implys a rightious stand against natural judgment.
Posted by meredith, Thursday, 29 December 2005 1:37:53 AM
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To everybody,

I am not able to make any sense of Greg Barns' article. I assume we are two or three generation gapes removed. So my comments are directed at the heading only.

Australia- a racist backwater.

What does racism (racist) mean to you? How does your understanding of these words fit the recent Sydney problems, described by the police as racist and white supremacist?

Dictionaries aside, these words, in accordance with there common usage, convey a lie, race is rarely relevant, maybe incidental but always the words are used for character assassination, used to creation of guilt complexes etc., always a distraction from the problems at hand. The problems are never fixed only suppressed.

Remember 'One Nation'. Ten percent of Australians supported One Nation's published policies, expected or assumed policies, dealing with multiculturalism and immigration and other areas when the government ignored the will of the people. There were some evil people (including anti-Semites) in high places in One Nation who white-ant-ed the party. Intelligent men behaving like morons.

These 10% of Australians, a small part of those who reject multiculturalism, would and did, shrivel up and disappear when accused of racism.

The use of “white supremacist”, suggests that 'racist' is loosing it's effect. With John Howard saying Australians are not racist, one can understand Laurie Oak's anger.

Those old enough may remember the 70's when we were told Australians could not be racist because we were not a race. But those who were a race (Italians, Greeks etc.) could be discriminatory on the basis of race.
Posted by GoldBrick, Thursday, 29 December 2005 2:48:02 AM
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There is only one race and it is called the human race. The real sin is prejudice and we are all guilty of this.

Jeshua
Posted by jeshua, Thursday, 29 December 2005 6:43:04 AM
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Goldbrick is right. I've been calling myself a racist with a certain matter-of-fact pride for the past seven years. The word has lost most of its bludgeon power in certain areas, largely because the liberals have overused it, and partly because people have begun taking notice that a lot of what is called racism is actually true.

We have a problem, however, in that while we were festering in our timidity, the liberals were able to put over certain laws that endorse, require belief in, or require conformity with, race-related lies. These lies will tear our countries apart if we go along with them. But the first thousand of us who rise up against the lies will have our lives ruined because we didn't obey the liberal "race laws."

Ask most people if they're patriotic enough to die for their country, they'll probably say yes. But how likely is it that they're telling the truth, if they won't even sit a while in jail to save their nation? The government will oppose the changes that must be made to preserve the nation - meaning that whether it knows it or not, the government has become a traitor. Treason, in the form of liberal ideas about mixing races, has prospered because for too long nobody dared to call it what is.
Posted by Jenab, Thursday, 29 December 2005 7:29:24 AM
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I still marvel at the left bashing in these posts and wonder where we'd be cullturally and politically if there was no "left". It thankfully is the interplay between the streams of thought clumsily presented as left/right that has got it us where we are -

whether you fall in line with the despair shown by barnsey and his jaundiced view of contemporary Australia or others who despair because we have walked away from the sterile monoculture for which some yearn most would admit we enjoy a pretty good way of life.

So to abandon, or to continually condem, a loose set of ideas that make up such an important feature of the debate is as foolish as saying the current government should be only measured by Tampa, the ineptitude of DIMIA, the IR laws and any other nuimber of leftist objects of disdain when clearly there is much to compliment Howard et al on.

Barnes' assesment is wrong, naive and simplistic - but for others to lump all our current woes at the feet of the influence of the left is equally as wrong naive and simplistic.

If it wasnt for comments from the left or the idea of the left - or the right for that matter, these pages would be empty.
Posted by sneekeepete, Thursday, 29 December 2005 9:32:08 AM
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I can see nothing wrong with wanting your country to be run as it has been.
To build a country such as Australia from convict beginnings into a nation that is up with the best in the world in a short 2oo or so years, speaks much of the way it has evolved.
So why ruin what was a peaceful, pleasant , prosperous land by bringing in immigrants who do not know the meaning of what we are?
Instead of bringing in those who add to our nation, we are importing trouble from troubled countries that for thousands of years have only supported war and grievances.
This is the beginning of the same sickness that has tainted their homelands and wilfully spreading here is unforgiveable.
Posted by mickijo, Thursday, 29 December 2005 3:22:08 PM
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Sneeky
that was a very well argued and balanced post.

Just one point of order though, I think you are misunderstanding the passion of some regarding 'mono-culture'.

I think most who you would normally lump in that camp, would be quite amicable regarding immigration as LONG as it is based on the following:

-We control the numbers
-We decide how many from which countries, races and religions
-We decide to a large degree where they are allowed to settle. (to avoid repeats of Lakemba) Some choices can be offered.

All of which can be addressed with carefully put together immigration information, and instruction. Citizenship can be conditional on good standing over a lengthy period.

and all of the above, without the SLIGHTest concern for political correctness or such outmoded and failed ideas as 'non discriminatory'.

Immigration is about OUR national interests, not those of the would be immigrant except as they coincide with ours.

I have no trouble with groups of immigrants celebrating their culture on special occasions, and for us to embrace them and rejoice with them in this, what I and most others DO have a problem with, is the outcome such as Lakemba, and Cronulla. But digging more deeply into the 'political' aspects of Immigration and settlement, we would see a very ugly picture emerge. (such as ethno/religious branch stacking)

If we scrutinized how ethnic/religious groups seek to influence the political process for the specific and exclusive benefit of their community at the expense of ours, you will see why I am so adamant that we HAVE TO fearlessly adopt policies such as outlined above.

I seek to advance the 'prevailing culture' model, which includes 74% of Aussies as being Anglo/Celtic based on ABS information. A prevailing culture is useful for education and social cohesiveness.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Thursday, 29 December 2005 5:22:07 PM
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What a racist you are BD, I haven't heard so much sense from you for a long time. Did something fall on your head on Hol's, or was it the caught by "the old testement trick", that dumped on you.

That's a sensible approach, as long as we ban religion in parliments as well. So that it can be seen to be secular and not before god.
Posted by The alchemist, Thursday, 29 December 2005 7:15:58 PM
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It's evident that the conflict between posters here is because we have not agreed on one definition of "racism". We're not happy with Greg Barnes definition, which in his eyes, holds those of Anglo Celtic origins as a backwater of hostile loathing of other races. However his definition is merely an expression of his own loathing emanating from some personal agenda of political fear mongering.

If we hold that "racism is endemic"; then what do we mean by that term? Is it the same term as others who say Australia is not racist! As some have pointed out people loathe other people at different levels and manage that expression at different levels. However loathing of others is not necessarily based in race as others have identified. For instance; we loathe Greg Barnes for his loathing of Australians. Are all who disagree with him racist scum? Are we racist because we express verbal difference? But would we take a baseball bat and belt his car windows in or a knife and stab him. At least I would hope we wouldn't. However does Greg consider us on this forum that disagree with him as racist? However his term race is not then a generic term, because we are not here identified by race; except friend Rainer. We might ocassionally disagree but that not on the base of his race. Then if Greg does, then his only answer is to have everyone brainwashed in his world-view. His only answer is a Totalitarian society based in his values. Greg expresses more hatred and loathing than he does in giving an answer for a peace loving multicultural democratic society.

Just a point of notice: I would hope we would all fight for the community of people that makes up Australia its Government, its institutions and laws and not merely for territory. Because in the minds of some the Cronulla riot was about establishing racial territory, whereas the protest should have been focused in drawing attention to the criminal behaviour upon the local community not being addressed by the Police or Government.
Posted by Philo, Thursday, 29 December 2005 7:38:14 PM
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What a namecaller you are Alchemeist. I am not quite sure why anyone should be ashamed of being called a racist, particularly when it is clearly a cheapshot, as Barns clearly demonstrates.

Anti-racism has evolved from addressing black/white segregation in the US, to an intellectual terrorist tactic aimed to smear those with a different opinion. In the context where racism is clearly a cheapshot, we should all strive to be as RACIST and XENOPHOBIC as possible- & take the venom out of these misused words. Perhaps then we can at least have an honest discussion.

It is not racist to strive for social cohesion over and above equality that only ever looks good on paper.
Posted by davo, Thursday, 29 December 2005 7:44:05 PM
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Sneeky/David Boaz,
At last some rational sensible constructive contributions, Sneeky it suits some in this place to "left" bash, as I have said many times the opposite of right is left, not wrong, as individuals we are falable and thus either viewpoint is equally able to be correct or incorrect on any particular subject, we should try to ,learn from one another, state our views and read and absorb others. David I like your 3 suggestions, but, perhaps mistakenly, thought that the current situation was so. If so why doesn't the PM simply not accept any more Lebonese immigrants, and look elsewhere for compatible immigrants. We do not know the whole story of immigrants backgrounds, and I would still support a 2 year good behaviour bond, which if broken would mean instant deportment, to be in force accross the whole immigration spectrum.
Posted by SHONGA, Thursday, 29 December 2005 9:57:45 PM
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SHonga “you are either racist, or you are not”

Racism is a subjective and ascribed human characteristic. Just as people can have varying degrees of “tolerance” they can likewise have varying degrees of intolerance. Racist attitudes are just one manifestation of “intolerance” - and comes in varying degrees.

You supposition is, therefore, rubbish.

Suggesting paedophilia as a point of elaboration. Whilst your experience and insight into such things may well be extensive, mine is not. Suggesting it is as reprehensible as most of your other drivel.

A view I support is

One can legislate for behaviour but not for attitude.

Tolerance and respect for individuals, regardless of their ethnic origin (or any other point of distinction) is a quality which is best acquired through interaction and education.
Insulating groups, classifying people’s differences, promotes and reinforces those differences.
Hence, I have no time for the teachings of Churches who preach and promote “exclusivity” for their flock any more than for Muslim clerics who do the same.

Understanding Tolerance and respect for the rights of other individuals, shape the attitudes of individual people and it is always the individual person who is the catalysts of all action and activity, good or bad.

The best way to remove differnces is by assimilation. Assimilation is not multiculturalism. Assimilation requires everyone who comes to Australia to place all the allegiance to Australia renouncing their ethnic origins and ties. As an immigrant I personally have no problem is asserting – I am English by accident of Birth but Australian by Choice.

Oh and just to correct some ignorant views being espoused here about Anglo-Celts and Anglo-Saxons.
“Anglos” were of different ethnic origin to “Celts” and different again to “Saxons”. Add to that influxes of Romans, Normans, Vikings and Danes plus intermarriage with Picts etc and it is easy to realise, what Australia has experienced in the past 200 years is nothing compared to the “experience” of the “British” over the past 2000 years. Britain, in whose traditions we were modelled and who have been dealing with “assimilation” for all those 2000 years
Posted by Col Rouge, Friday, 30 December 2005 2:07:04 AM
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So Alchemist disagrees with Boaz David and thus he must be a racist.The left is responsible for the mess of violence and lawlessness.These criminals came from the lawless war torn areas of Lebanon and our Dept of immigration didn't have the guts,brains or will,to select those who would intergrate and their policies haven't changed even in the light of what's happened in France.

It is not just in the hundreds,there are thousands according to Tim Priest who are involved in serious crime in Sydney.They have the police running scared.At the height of the Cronulla riots a vision of Morris Iemma reclining in his chair will stick in my mind,he had the glazed look of fear in his eyes.That is why he makes a lot of noise about arresting a few Anglo white supremacists since they are easy targets.Carl Scully twice referred to the whole group of protesters as,"Those yobbo 5000" Very few of those arrested were actually from Cronulla.No mention of the Middle Eastern thugs who the next day literally trashed and terrorised Maroubra.It is all about cover up and deflecting the blame,since this Iemma Govt has no answers.The criminal thugs have all the power.

Idiots like Greg Barns have no idea.He doesn't even live in Sydney.Sure racism will increase when violence and lawlessness prevails.It is the weak leftist attitudes of people like Greg Barnes that have brought about the demise of France and will bring about the demise of Australia if we don't act.

Morris Iemma,the member for Lakemba,Mr Forty Five Degrees,reclining his chair is looking a bit obtuse and scared.He doesn't have the ticker to do the job and both he and his useless party should resign now.
Posted by Arjay, Friday, 30 December 2005 6:20:00 AM
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Col Rouge,
I actually agree with some parts of your posts mate, and you are quite correct on my knowledge, as I was molested and subject to attempted rape when a teenager.
What I am attempting to get across is that there are good and bad in every race, including muslim races, so for the sake of our own protection, why hasn't the Howard Government instituted a policy for all immigrants to be on a 2 year probation, and if the probation was breached the immigrant would be deported.
I am a Purchasing Officer, paid a pittance, and yes sometimes misspell in the heat of the moment, you may have a much higher station in life, and good on you, if that's the case. However I was under the impression that all Australian citizens had the right to offer a point of view, and to have a vote, so while I disagree with you on many things, I agree on others.
Anyone here who takes personal insults personally probably shouldn't subject themselves to this place, politics is a dirty game where insults are the norm.
Col you are obviously right wing, and I am obviously left wing, providing we stayed away from political debate, we could probably enjoy a drink together, and talk about the cricket. It may be an inability on my part to really understand how one person can condem another on the basis of race rather than deeds, which leads to my stance on this matter, as stated in an earlier post, why not catergorise everyone under the "criminal" banner, and either lock them up or deport them, whether or not they are English, Arabian, or Jew. I am a born and bred Australian, who believes I should have no greater say than an immigrant from England, or the West Indies, all Australians of all political persuasions have helped to build this great country, you included, and of course me.
Posted by SHONGA, Friday, 30 December 2005 11:22:42 AM
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I think it could be hard to police a 2 year probation, i had a friend who was beaten so severly for 20 years, it took immagration 20 friggign years to get it together to deport him, and as he has kids in Australia it seemed only a 5 year limit could be put on keeping him out. So he may well coem back... there is so much paper work its a huge chore to get soemone out, that is why i think policing a 2 year probation would eb so hard when all one has to do is run off and assuem a new identity.

On these grounds I'd prefer to see our new citizens come other non islamic backgrounds.
Posted by meredith, Friday, 30 December 2005 11:46:52 AM
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Shonga, I have to disagree with you when you say about Col "providing we stayed away from political debate, we could probably enjoy a drink together, and talk about the cricket."

You would, I suspect, quickly find that you have little in common with someone who is arrogant enough to lecture you on tolerance and then tell you, "You [sic] supposition is, therefore, rubbish."

Don't give an inch to his pseudo-intellectual bullying either. He is as equally guilty of poor English, misspelling and egregious sentence construction as anybody else on this thread.

He responds to an article that puts forward a view with which he disagrees by vilifying the author. I suspect that were you to have a drink with him, and venture an opinion - on cricket, or the weather - contrary to his own, he would not hesitate to give you the same treatment.

Some people just are like that, and best avoided.
Posted by Pericles, Friday, 30 December 2005 1:17:38 PM
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I agree with a probationary period and I believe it should be far longer than two years. And of course it should apply regardless of nationality, ethnicity, religion or any other classification.

If it would currently be difficult to implement, then that is because of the lack of adequate laws and surely this could be addressed by the Federal Parliament. There are scientific ways of positively identifying a person and I believe that these identifying characteristics should be on permanent record.

Naturally we wouldn't be wanting to deport a person for parking offences or suchlike. But I believe that criminal offences carrying a certain minimum jail sentence can disqualify a person from certain public positions in Australia and a similar system could apply to qualify for deportation.

I would like this to apply to first generation immigrants too, but I suppose this would be more difficult to implement.

Of course with the present apparently incompetent state of the Immigration Dept, goodness knows who they would manage to deport and who they would allow to stay in Australia.
Posted by Rex, Friday, 30 December 2005 1:52:17 PM
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there seems to be a lot of white anglo saxons being arrested for the cronulla riot but i haven't seen too many arabs being hunted down by police even after the organised attack against the beach suburbs the following day.

is this racism by the police..... a policy of selective policing on behalf of the labour gov which doesn't want to lose the leb vote in the western suburbs, hence a softly softly approach to those poor misunderstood lebs.

it's amazing how the left wing media completely ignores law and order policies of this corrupt gov and refuses point blank to make an issue of anything likely to damage the labour gov.
Posted by vinny, Friday, 30 December 2005 2:21:41 PM
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A reason why the Police have not arrested these Lebanese Muslim youth is because they would have a Macquarie Fields type riot on their hands. When an assrest is attempted car loads of their mates turn up to threaten the police. So the Police back off to avoid a major riot.

This is also similar to places like Redfern where Aboriginal arrests by Police are restricted. Crime is rife in both these communities and is associated with cultural indoctrination, that White man's laws / infidel Australian laws does not apply to us.

Once these criminals leave the security of their community then Police survelliance can arrest them.

Persons who have sworn allegiance to Australia its Government and laws that no longer show such allegiance should loose citizenship including the right to vote. Immigrants could be deported but others should loose all citizenship rights and full social benifits.

Unfortunately if they become a majority of the population they could attempt to form their own government and begin a civil revolution. Establishing a society based in the type of culture they now frequent - Magarbie [spell?] style.
Posted by Philo, Friday, 30 December 2005 3:39:13 PM
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Philo

The Aussie public has a voice, we can petition to lobby for a commonwealth level enquiry into the inability of the police forces to combat islamic crime. They face physical retribution and also legal issues (i.e. calls of racism for attempting to police islamic thugs) I think it takes about 15000 signatures to prompt a legislation change, so doable even if its more to get a Government enquiry.
Posted by meredith, Friday, 30 December 2005 3:42:38 PM
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Meredith...LETS GET GOING !

I believe 100,000 people visit this site a month.... perhaps we can persuade Graham Young to run one of his E- petitions ?

Give the wording some thought and we can all compare notes.

I'm very much for 'probation' and of course not for parking infringements. Political demo's, specially with violence, or attacks on Detention Centres, are a different matter, specially if they are at odds with our democratically established foreign and domestic policy.

Perhaps we can tackle:

1/ Selective Policing in NSW (Review of policy and approach)

2/ Immigration to be re-visited and re-structured along lines as I and others have repeatedly suggested. (selective/discriminatory/in our national interest not that of the immigrant)

Of course they are 1/ a State issue and 2/ a Federal one.

I can feel Pericles breathing down my neck and his arm raised holding a copy of "Mosely, my life" to beat me with :) so I better not say too much more or I'll be mush.

I noticed a beautiful example of racial harmony today. At our swimming pool- about 85% aussies, some Tongans and some Asians, (Cambo's I'd guess) and one lone Chinese. Everyone was getting along in a very 'transparent' way, with no skin color or cultural issues coming into play. Maybe this was because it models how Australia should be ! I had a great chat with one Tongan guy (a Policeman)
a/ A prevailing culture
b/ Small minorities who are culturally compatable and adjust to our ways.

Our Christmas dinner was something.
-Me, Scottish/English Victim of Highland Clearances.
-My wife, Victim of aggression by other Borneo tribes, and grandma/pa had slaves. (freed)
-My mixed children
-My daughters half maori b/f who is a Ngapuhi, the tribe which slaughtered its enemy tribe when they obtained muskets from the English.

But we....had peace on earth and good will because in Christ, "The old has passed way, behold, the new has come"
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 30 December 2005 8:21:39 PM
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Perciles,
Thanks for the advice, I have taken it firmly on board. My opinion was never going to change, nor my defence of my opinions, however your point is well made, as I have stated in other threads, I may not be the most educated, the most knowledgeable, or the most politically astute, but I do know right from wrong, and am prepared to argue my case untill I am proven wrong by a common sense point of view, once again I thank you for your advice he is one of the most arrogant, self opinioned people on the site, as as they say, there is no rest for the wicked, and I'll make sure there's not.

David Boaz,
I was the person who first suggested the 2 year bond idea to try to start a discussion on positive measures that could be taken to solve the Sydney situation. Living in North Qld, where multi-culturism is a very friendly affair, much as your Christmas dinner, it seems strange that these situations develop, and I don't pretend to know the whole situation, I am merely making suggestions as to how the situation may be peaceably solved. Some have expressed a desire for a 5 year probation which may be more suitable.

Most State Government funding comes from the Federal Government, so the N.S.W. Police Minister should approach the Federal Treasurer for more funding for his/her department if the police are being outnumbered by these gangs, I maintain that we should look at the crimes not the race, and either jail or deport the criminals of whatever race they happen to be, which as you mentioned above would need State/Federal cooperation, let's hope it is fortcoming, in the meantime we should keep the ideas on solutions flowing, so eventually a few good ideas may be compiled and a petition circulated calling on both parliaments to proceed with a detailed plan incorporating our suggestions, Regards,Shaun
Posted by SHONGA, Friday, 30 December 2005 10:24:10 PM
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Fair-go “who” for “what” in Australia? Advancing where?

Rootless, inside a fragmented “ mates-ship” roughly in denial, dominated by a top-heavy public service, bound to blind autocratic forms of structural violence that reproduce the cultural antics of fear, discrimination and nonsensical xenophobia, regardless of our having the advantage of many good national and state policies.

Sustaining bogus an unfounded international apathetic national pride that declares itself active in the toil for the” global fight for a fairer world”. A nation struck dry in a homeland swollen by a stress driven mainstream, lead by bullies, dishonest and lethargic politicians (together with narrow representation) that… severely fail to avert racism and malevolence.

I agree, Australia has become a culturally divest pigsty. It dismantles innovation, opportunity and diversity - refusing to unfurl… except when it comes to selling out to popular synthetic commodities which symbolise the economic imbalance of imports like flash cars and fast package food!

"Why can't Australia be more like Canada, a nation that embraces civil rights and tolerance"…? Look harder… folks, who say’s Canada is in reality, is any better?

YES, I do want for more for Australia. I believe we need to “turn the lens back onto community”, build capacity through community engagement, if not for ourselves, then for our children and their grandchildren.
Posted by miacat, Saturday, 31 December 2005 12:58:56 AM
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Miacat, I hope you're on drugs.
Posted by Sebby259, Saturday, 31 December 2005 1:04:23 AM
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Shonga I am not interested in your political leaning, job, colour or race. I could not give a stuff about your teenage experiences and we would not have a friendly chat about cricket.

What you earn is a matter for you to manage and budget within.

What I earn is for me to decide based on the choices I make.

There is nothing of common interest between us.

If you want to avoid insults – I suggest you stop throwing them around – because I respond to people in the manner they write of me. Eg you have been banned for initiating insulting behaviour and I banned for what I wrote in response.

We are all potentially “racist inclined”, to varying degrees.
Obvious racism like KKK is easy.
Subtler racism is like suggesting we should allow people of different ethnic origins migrate to Australia but not to the suburb we live in.
Insidious racism is where a parent discourages their child from mixing with children of a different ethnic group by talking disparagingly about that group.
That is where racist inclinations are born, in the home, passed on from parent to child.

Example, Latham admitted he taught his sons to “hate Liberals”. I wonder if that was liberals of a particular colour?
Will Latham’s sons grow up to be “tolerant individuals”?
They might, anyone can overcome adversity (even having Latham as a father) but the likelihood is they will be less “tolerant” because of the influence of a malignant parent teaching them to “hate” instead of respect and “tolerate”.

I believe I am tolerant to other peoples ethnic origin and religious beliefs. I believe women should have equal rights to men. I do not believe we should pursue affirmative action campaigns of any sort because they are “discriminatory” by nature and intent.

The reason even you agree with me sometimes is simple – I am Right

Pericles – proving your irrelevance?

Shonga “My opinion was never going to change,” = the sign of a stagnant and closed mind!

That you and Pericles might think me "arrogant", I just don't care.
Posted by Col Rouge, Saturday, 31 December 2005 5:32:37 AM
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all that needs doing is to give police the power and authority to defend themselves against threats and attacks so the cops can start belting these w@nkers and shooting them if necessary.

this will make the police feared by those arabs and they will begin to understand that the cops rule the streets.

just target some of the ringleaders and soon their cowardly supporters will fall into line.
Posted by vinny, Saturday, 31 December 2005 6:36:06 AM
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The growing suspicion among Americans that the attack on the World Trade Center towers on 11 Sep 2001 was carried out by demolition explosives, with the airliner collisions being supplied as "theater," has started a slowly simmering reaction against the government's legitimacy and authority. The reaction can be summarized as follows:

Because they don't obey the law, neither need we.
Because they attacked us, they should never be secure from our reprisals.
Because they can't be trusted, we don't owe them the truth, either.
Because they have guns, we should be scofflaw to gun control.
Let the first enemy of the US government be America itself.

This reaction to reason is entirely proper. The WTC treason provoked it because of its visually dramatic nature. But it was overdue. The US government had already perpetrated much larger treasons with laws favoring multicultural race-mixing and by failing to control the US border with Mexico.

No citizen has any moral obligation to obey the laws of a government that would mix them with another race.
Posted by Jenab, Saturday, 31 December 2005 6:58:10 AM
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Some thoughts on probation issue.

- I have the impression that the "Lebanese" Gangs are mostly comprised of men who have grown up in Australia, possibly were born here. 2 or 5 year probabtions are irrelevant as a means to deal with their behaviour.
- If such an idea is brought in what we should be looking for is a pattern of behaviour which shows contempt for this country so the person with 50 parking tickets should show on the radar.
- To get a viable system it needs judgement calls rather than strick formula's and that leaves a system open to bias, personal agenda's, corruption etc on the part of the persons making the judgement. If we went for strick formula's then lawyers would have a field day.

I do agree that immigration whould primarily be for the benefit of Australia and that it involves some mutual obligation. Those coming here have responsibilities which most honour, the small minority who don't need consequences for failing to do so.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Saturday, 31 December 2005 8:06:01 AM
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Jenab

Your views are an utter disgrace. You are espousing intolerance and segregation. This is the 21st century. Such opinions have no place in rational and sane discussion. I am embarrassed for you. You should be ashamed of yourself.

I am intolerant of intolerance and I sense everybody on this forum basically agrees on that and accepts it as an Australian ideal.

Take your unwanted intrusive Americanism away from this place.
Posted by keith, Saturday, 31 December 2005 9:57:17 AM
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Police-inaction,
I hear Police talking about not stirring up more violent situation that involves them directly. For-instance the Cronulla riots were between two community groups, whereas riots in Redfern and Macquarie Fields were directed at Police. If Police arreast gang members in their community they will be faced with the same type of violence as the previous examples.

As you know the Police are restricted in how they arrest offenders. They're not allowed to act heavy handedly and overpower by force. The NSW Police are the "Police Service" whereas once were the "Police Force" and could act quickly to dominate the situation using brute-force. Their tenure has changed to tolerance, this requires them to stand in lines while youths pelt rocks and molotov coctails unabated.

With these youth it would involve illegal knives and pistols. Before the Police can arrest an offender for carrying a knife or gun he is required to ask, "Are you carrying a knife?", the offender is to hand it over. The Police cannot arrest on suspicion and frisk the suspect, so this proceedure places the weapon in the offenders hands while approaching the Police with the weapon. This'is too risky the Police say; the knife being thrust towards an Officer could leave him wounded or dead. The same applies for pistols. There are thousands of illegal pistols in this community, and they have their own legal pistol shooting club.

Police do have the numbers but not orders to act with violence overpowering criminals, as charges can be laid against them personally. In the heat of the battle they wouldn't show personal restraint. This could then embolden the youth to act as they did in France. These criminals have no rules of engagement; but they certainly need to be brought to justice. I am sure the Iemma Government [especially the Iemma Government], as the local Member for the area would not want a state of emergency that brings in the Army to shoot at will anyone suspected of violent intent. This would imply he is not capable of managing State affairs.
Posted by Philo, Saturday, 31 December 2005 10:53:08 AM
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Government-Private Dictatorships (GPDs)and their racism stalking horse.

Facts:

* Morris Iemma is member for LAKEMBA, the PRIVATE Sector sweetheart (http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/iemma-hits-paydirt-with-donors/2005/12/30/1135915692354.html) and has little regard for democracy as shown by by forcing a desal plant on 7/10 citizens who oppose it.

* Morris Iemma wants 1,000,000 more people in Sydney by 2020 despite the civil unrest.

* Cronulla is intimidated by Lebanese youth, mostly from LAKEMBA.

* Police lock down Cronulla and intimidate locals as an Iemma priority at a time when Cronulla residents seriously challenge the desal plant on a number of levels.

Wake up people!

This is not evidence of a racist backwater it is the consequence of Government-Private Dictatorship and a total DISRESPECT for the majority of electoral constituents.
Any law and order measures that penalise rioters or racists can easily be perverted by a Government hell bent on GPD agendas. This is not the answer to racism or rioting or civil distress. And at every step of putative law and order measures, Private companies are the winners just as the telcos were during the riots, with increased text messaging.

GPDs are common now in Europe, China, India and even in US states like Nevada. But Unlike those places, we still have a democracy of sorts and can give this 'Labor Party machined GPD' the BOOT at every opportunity that presents itself.

To compound the problem, the Howard government immigrates skills to the tune of 110,000 per year and boosts HECs fees in a one-two punch that has youth right across Australia feeling unwanted, devalued, insecure and prone to civil disobedience.
If we want riots, disrespect for law and racism to go away we need to also send a short, sharp electoral shock to the Howard government that we EXPECT free education and a total removal of HECS fees. This country can afford free education. This country cannot afford to have unvalued youth or other citizens of any race or creed. It is far better to make them feel part of this nation rather than sidelining them as part of some petty Turnbullyan budget balancing fiat.
Posted by KAEP, Saturday, 31 December 2005 11:36:17 AM
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KAEP I agree; To compound the problem, 'youth right across Australia (are left) feeling unwanted, devalued, insecure and prone to civil disobedience'.

SOCIAL ANXIETY?

"If we want riots, disrespect for law and racism to go away we need to also send a short, sharp electoral shock" to all of government "that we EXPECT free education and a total removal of HECS fees".

"This country can afford free education. This country cannot afford to have unvalued youth or other citizens of any race or creed. It is far better to make them feel part of this nation rather than sidelining them as part of some petty Turnbullyan budget balancing fiat".

If "COST BENEFIT " analysis means anything, it would be more "human" and economically cheaper on social services in the long-term.
Posted by miacat, Saturday, 31 December 2005 11:57:23 AM
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Herein lies the problem, anyone good at physics, to fix it. No Pc's. polies nor beaurucrats need apply, we need real answers

The recent climate, fuel issues and civil unrest, has helped prove existence of a new element. In December October [2005] a major research institution announced discovery of the heaviest element yet known to science. The new element has been named "Gov/-ern/-men/-tium."(Gv)

Gv) has one neutron, 25 assistant neutrons, 88 deputy neutrons, and 198 assistant deputy neutrons, giving it an atomic mass of 312.

These 312 particles are held together by forces called morons, which are surrounded by vast quantities of lepton like particles called peons. Since Gv has no electrons, it is inert. However, it can be detected, because it impedes every reaction with which it comes into contact. A minute amount of Gv causes one reaction to take over four days to complete, when it would normally take less than a second!

Gv has a normal half-life of 3 years; it does not decay, but instead undergoes a reorganisation, in which, a portion of the assistant neutrons and deputy neutrons, exchange places.

In fact, Gov/-ern/-men/-tium's mass, will actually increase over time, since each reorganisation will cause more morons to become neutrons, forming isodopes. When more and more isodopes are formed into existance, they form a moronic state of non-cohesive functioning unity and act independently causing a chaotic dissintigration of foundational structure.

This characteristic of moron promotion leads some scientists to believe that Gv is formed whenever morons reach a certain quantity in concentration. This hypothetical quantity is referred to as Critical Morass.

When catalysed with money, Gv becomes Administratium (Am) - an element which radiates just as much energy as Gv, since it has half as many peons but twice as many morons.
Posted by The alchemist, Saturday, 31 December 2005 12:47:24 PM
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People,

It does little good to water down the Government-Private Dictatorship (GPD) role in social unrest in Sydney by using oblique generalisations.

There are very specific people and companies hard at work trying to farm human capital in Australia. Its a natural process in a land that rode the sheep's back for over a century. We are however not SHEEP. We are Aussies and I know we have what it takes to stand up to tyranny in all its soft and harder forms. Australia never was and never will be a BACKWATER.

If we are to let State and Federal governments know GPDs are NOT ON, we need to be very SPECIFIC and very direct.

Further this is not an attack on individualism. On the contrary it about showing respect for individuals.
It is about demanding state and federal governments show respect for Australian citizens over foreign corporations and imported workers, starting with free education and removal of HECS fees.

It is also not an attack on valuable Public Private Partnerships. If we have governments that respect Australian citizens then corporations and immigrants will also show us the respect we deserve and must be given. And we can show them they can still turn a profit and be valuable community citizens..

But first off, we need a moratorium on immigration to determine who really is controlling Australia, sort out electoral rorts and come up with a fair, sound and sustainable development path for this nation over the coming century. The prevailing 'stacks on the mill' philosophy is pure Feudalism. It is anathema in its inequity and must be dealt a crippling blow in a show of true and just Federalism.
Posted by KAEP, Saturday, 31 December 2005 2:31:53 PM
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Keap,
Some relavent points in your post. However it was Bob Carr who originally put foward the decelanation plant for Cronulla. However the point you relate that Morris Iemma is Member for Lakemba whereas Cronulla [is Liberal held seat] are in riotous conflict may be more than incidental. This could be another identity to the problem being about territory. Perhaps Morris needs to show some good will to the residents of Cronulla by canning the decel plant.

Alchemist,
A great peice of prose, but irrelavent to the topic.
Posted by Philo, Saturday, 31 December 2005 4:06:28 PM
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Hi David,

Yup I’ll do that with you… it’s vital!

My last job involved making petitions for a small long running NGO, one thing I was taught online petitions aren’t credible and papers ones are, fraud privacy etc. Still they do no real harm either, even a lot of good.

For a paper petition we’d need a return address a PO box even, better still an org to back us.

Form letters work well, they can be emailed individually or downloaded and printed also re written. They say, statistically, one letter is 10,000 voices. But yes! defiantly needs doing.

An enquiry into the weakened powers of our police are where these kinda things start as far as I know, then submissions on the enquiries recommendations from various concerned orgs and us guys…

Things, I think, to petition to be enquired as far as policing goes are:

1 Mild Military assistance until police are able to work free of intimidation.

2 Legal protections from racism charges for police.

3 Official recognition of islamic gang rape crisis.

4 The levels of physical threat to police from ethnic gangs.

For a start…

Also educational propaganda on reverse racism, many cases have been won in the USA. Or preventative measures so we don’t actually get to that…

As far as immigration, I’m pretty much in agreement with you, except on probation, I think that is risky, as you pop a few babies out and you’re here for life, even as an illegal or with criminal records, one still has very strong rights.

I have other things id like to lobby as well.

Glad you had a cool xmas, I had poly-cultural xmas lunch as well, a Vietnamese student my uncle has sponsored for her year 11 and 12 and my friend from Sweden. They were lightly baked and with nice fresh veges. Sadly I was unable to cook my best and oldest “polish-aboriginal” friend as I only got to speak to her on the phone. (Joking :P)

Are you willing to give an email addy I can use and I’d send you my notes?
Posted by meredith, Saturday, 31 December 2005 5:15:41 PM
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PART 1
An interesting letter in the current climate, I put forward for comment/debate

An Open Letter

Charlotte Kates is the pro-terrorist law student at Rutgers Univ. who organized the pro-Palestinian conference and defends suicide bombers...

The following letter was written to the President of Rutgers State University by an Israeli citizen after reading Kates' published comments on the Israeli/Palestinian situation !!

Dear Ms. Kates,

I think you are a remarkable woman. You are neither an Arab nor a Jew, you do not study the Middle East, or any associated subject, and correct me if I am wrong, you have never visited this region. Therefore I am somewhat astounded at your expertise and to your comments on Israel being an Apartheid state.

I have lived in Israel for many years and I would be delighted to take you on a little virtual tour of our country. Let me first give you a couple of minor points. Israel occupies 0.1% of the landmass of the Middle East and it is the only Jewish state, not only in this region, surrounded as we are by 22 Arab states, but in the world.

Let us begin your virtual tour!!
You have already been through immigration at Tel Aviv Airport with your boyfriend, whom we shall call Ken. You will have filled out a visitors form.

This form will not ask you, as it will in many of the countries that
surround us, what is your religion, and it will certainly not ask you, as they do in Saudi Arabia, for a "certificate of religion".

VGC
Posted by VGC, Saturday, 31 December 2005 5:28:22 PM
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PART 2

The day is Sunday! You will want to attend a church service. No problem in the Apartheid State of Israel. We tolerate and freely allow worship for all religions. This is more than can be said for nearly all of the surrounding 22 Arab nations. In fact many of them would not even have a single church, let alone a synagogue.

After a lovely service you and Ken would head for a leisurely lunch, maybe at one of the lovely beachfront restaurants in Tel Aviv. You would most likely have returned to your hotel and put on a very casual outfit, as befitting the very hot Israeli summers. This could be a pair of shorts and a tight fitting skimpy t-shirt. No problem in the Apartheid state of Israel.

In Israel we allow freedom of dress, especially for women, who are not made to wear bulky long robes, a veil to cover their face, and, wouldn't it be a pity if you had to cover that lovely coiffed hairdo, as you would probably have to in most of the surrounding 22 Arab states.

During lunch Ken could gaze lovingly into your heavily painted eyes, complete with a good application of black mascara. He would be free to lean across and kiss your lips, finely painted with lip liner, 2 shades of burgundy lipstick and gloss. People would probably think you were in love, especially as Ken has proudly displayed a good wine on the table. Public displays of affection and consuming alcohol in the Apartheid state of Israel is nothing unusual and its not even scorned upon. That's more than can be said for most of the surrounding 22 Arab states.
Posted by VGC, Saturday, 31 December 2005 5:39:42 PM
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Hi Meredith
sure.. u can email me at 'jdrmot@tpg.com.au' from then I can give you a P.O. BOX which I already have.

I wish my post limit had not been used up for 24 hours on the other thread, about Culture Creation etc... because Steve Madden did make a very important point about one sub group within what is usually termed the Christian Right , referring to a Rushdoony bloke who he called a 're-constructionist', seeking to re-establish Old Testament Theocratic rule through American military and economic might. I would steer VERY clear of people with those ideas. If Steve reads this, I should point out however that Howard Ahmanson Jr who has given heavy duty donations to Rushdoony's mob, has now pulled back, and so have other high profile supporters, for the same reasons I give myself. Theocracy is a 'no goer' from a New Testament and Biblical position. (except for the individual heart) Rushdoony WOULD bring in a Taliban style government !

We should all bear in mind, that when any large group gains momentum, there will be those who seek to capitalize on it, and hijack it to promote their own views. (As happened with Cronulla and the White Supremacists)

It is up to us all to be vigilant and aware, and to extend our own knowledge and understanding of important ideas to properly evaluate where things could lead with them. Reading the Bible a few times is always a good start :)
Posted by BOAZ_David, Saturday, 31 December 2005 8:45:57 PM
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Keith,

Your views are an utter disgrace. You are espousing race-mixing and multiculturalism. This is the 21st century. Such opinions have no place in rational and sane discussion. I am embarrassed for you. You should be ashamed of yourself.

I am intolerant of chicanery, and I sense an effort on your part to portray your own agenda as an Australian ideal.

Examine your foolishness and recognize it for what it is.

(Anybody can play the rhetoric game, Keith. Real debate is more work.)
Posted by Jenab, Saturday, 31 December 2005 11:18:36 PM
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Jenab ,we don't need your ilk since you are playing right into the hands of the lunatic left.They will want to paint all moderate people who want balance in the Multicultural Debate with the same brush.This is what happened at Cronulla and the left wing journos used it so well to paint Australia as a nation of racists.

Races in Australia have been intermarrying for decades.We are talking about the quality of immigrant that comes here since every race has it's good and bad genes.My children have both Indian and Lebanese friends and they are great Australians.

We have to get this politically correct mentality under control since it is undermining the rights of ordinary Australians to have a say in the running of their own country.

I went into your website and pictures of the two blond girls and music,it gave me the creeps.It reminded me of a type of racial paedophilia.How can we bring about change with this lunacy?

I'd suggest that you re-assess your ideas and values since your solutions will bring anarchy along with the other leftist extremists we have in control of the Multicultural Barrow.

Many cultures can and do come here,but it must be under our terms and there must be far better quality control.
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 1 January 2006 7:05:55 AM
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Meredith

Someone put a card under my windscreen wiper:
Quote

SAVE AUSTRALIA
Join the – SAVE AUSTRALIA ALLIANCE – Free
PO Box 578 TAREE NSW 2430
ph 0408 521 376

Unquote

When I searched on SAVE AUSTRALIA I found http://www.users.bigpond.com/tonypitt/id122.htm

I don't know if they are left, right or middle, what do you think? Check it out.
Posted by GoldBrick, Sunday, 1 January 2006 12:44:36 PM
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GoldBrick,
I received a letter in the mail last week requesting that I join others in my neighbourhood to form an active branch of "Save Australia". I am astounded to think I was considered a member of this Group. Obviously someone has put my name down as an interested person.

Because I have been involved in local environment, heritage and politicts perhaps they assumed I be interested in their cause. I must say I am, but I'm actively involved in another political Party.

Could be linked to the membership of the former One Nation remnant. Though I've never been a member or attended any of ON activities.
Posted by Philo, Sunday, 1 January 2006 1:25:27 PM
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GB

oh man... i have no idea what that is, strategic anarchy? and green issses, i didnt read it to deeply, but saw a link to Port Arthur massacre conspiracy, prolly a lead in to gun laws. etc.

Its very scattered. Lets see if anyone else looks and comments.

im not on mailings lists so don't get this kinda thing.

there are a few little right wingish / enviromental orgs around, but i havent heard of any ozzy ones before.
Posted by meredith, Sunday, 1 January 2006 2:03:25 PM
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Jenab

Your coppycat post just goes to show that some of us are born to lead and others born merely to follow.
Posted by keith, Sunday, 1 January 2006 2:20:55 PM
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Goldbrick,it is a difficult one.There is now an opportunity for another political party because the Labor Party are useless an stand for nothing.I think we are enslaving our population both through Globalisation and Multi-national dominance and the left wing nutters that have control of our Public Service.It is a scissor movement of these two forces vieing for control and we the general public are the meat in the sandwich.

To start a new party takes much planning and credible leaders unlike the One Nation Party.People are really disatisfied with with all forms of our Govts because they are weak spin doctors of the politically correct.We are very cynical and tired of being manipulated by corrupt politicians.Just get the movie Fahrenheit 9/11 by Michael Moore and you will see why.Aparently it banned in many US States.

We are a confused society and don't know which way to turn.
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 1 January 2006 4:05:04 PM
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Meredith

I scanned quickly through the website of Save Australia.

It doesn't seem to carry any particular idealogical line. Neither does it seem to be partisan. It seems to despise all politicians and parties equally. It is very much across issues. For example it is anti Iraq war yet holds similar views to Noel Pearson on the Aboriginals issues it addresses. I cannot find any comments on immigration although given it's rhetoric it would very likely reflect many of the views on this particular thread.

It is strongly against mutli-national corporations and anti free trade and anti the current Trade Union movement.

I found it both pro and anti republican.

It seems to attempt very reasonable arguments for the positions it espouses. It doesn't resort to shallow verbage.

The Port Arthur thing seems an oddity. It doesn't seem pro gun.

It is very much in support of property rights especially for farmers.

The new co-ordinator is Dr John Kingston who was elected as a One Nation member for Maryborough in The Pauline Hansons romp in that State election. To his credit he resigned from One Nation within a year. He represented Maryborough for one term only. Marybourough has had independant members ever since.

I prefer to take a longer term view of things so I haven't yet formed an opinion on the Save Australia group yet. Quite a few of the positions interest me and are inalignment with my own thoughts just as some of are not.
Posted by keith, Sunday, 1 January 2006 6:16:17 PM
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cool Keith,

yeh you seem to have looked a lil closer than me.. Arjay is right, theres an empty spot for a new political party with labor bin so stuffed atm
Posted by meredith, Sunday, 1 January 2006 6:29:24 PM
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Jenab
You seem to be misunderstanding the concept of 'race'. Are u of the opinion that 'white' is a 'race' ? You would be fully aware that there are many different races which are white, including some northern Indian. Mixing if races (including Asian, Medditeranean,even Arab) is not the issue, it is the mixing in 'dangerous proportions'.

If any one minority were allowed to be more than 10% of our population, we could face signficant race based political instability.

I hope you will re-think your views on 'race mixing' because such views don't really have legs these days. I urge you to consider instead the 'Prevailing culture' model, which is easier to support.
The important thing for migrants should be cultural compatability etc. Not their particular race, though compatability will certainly limit the available choices.

GB and MEREDITH and KEITH... I think you are all 'tweaking' to the incredible POWER in a small number of votes ! We have all witnessed the power of Barnaby Joyce, and Steve Feilding. I rather like (thus far) the 'Save Australia' concept, though the name seems a bit reactionary and knee jerk. Still, they have a FANTASTIC point about being a loose knit 'BBQ' based movement. Its what I feel about OLO also. THIS is our 'bbq'.

OLO is a reference point of passionate thrashing out and refining of ideas. Criticism is invaluable to help us knock basic 'ok' ideas into powerful political weapons. With no 'party' or 'personality' for the LEFT Media to bash and insult, we can change this country !

I freaked when I found Tony Pitt has the same training and RAAF background as me, and worked on the same equipments :)

I think we are on the verge of PEOPLE POWER. The obvious need for, but lack of, a party to be more centrist, could be filled by like minded people in a movement like this. I found many of my own thoughts reflected on the Save website.

Manufacturing.
We have the ore, and the skills (for a few more years) do we have the entreprenuers ?
Posted by BOAZ_David, Sunday, 1 January 2006 8:50:29 PM
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KEITH...
I just found Dr John Kingston is a FALUNGONG follower, and even went as far as proclaiming a 'falungong' day in Maryborough. I don't have a problem with him following that faith so much, if he can support the basic framework outlined by Tony Pitt in SAA. But I have some concerns possibly trying to turn the groundswell into a Falungong movement by proxy.

I read some of their views, and to be honest I found them 'whacky' at best. Just my opinion. Then, some people find my own Christian views worse than whacky :) Just ask Alchemist or Kenny.

Meredith, I think SAA has more to offer than a petition, but please contact me when ur ready and we can discuss it further.

Cheers
Posted by BOAZ_David, Sunday, 1 January 2006 9:15:40 PM
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If your gonna form a political or action group, it has to take a lateral approach. Currently there are no forms of party organisations or policies that go anywhere near satisfying the people.

The best approach would be to have a forum thread that asked what would you do if you were asked to form policies for each porfolio, then you will get ideas that will slowly form into usable policies that have support and mean something for the people.

They have to be different in their approach, both economically and environmentally. That means all environments, health, education, social, natural, farming, manufacturing, infrastructure etc. We have to think of everything in society as being vital to the success and sustainability of the system.

The most important thing is to give everyone the equality of opportunity to live and not just the need to survive.

Or start a blog and do it there
Posted by The alchemist, Sunday, 1 January 2006 9:36:39 PM
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Yeah...start a new poltical party or movement. There is no poltical parties that represent me, One Nation maybe, but they, like labor and the greens are a bit dodgy.

I want a party that challenges the idea that multiculturism is 'essential'. One that exposes poeple like Barns as the morons that they are. And one that realises that humans like people that are like themselves, and takes this base instinct into account with regard to immigration (ignore non-discriminatory baloney). Otherwise events such as the Cronulla riot will occur so often that it will become normal.

I was talking to a 'Pierre' (aka Perry) from France yesterday. He openly said that he hates North Africans. This alone explains the problems France is now facing. Importing immigrants that people don't like will cripple a country, not enrich it.
Posted by davo, Sunday, 1 January 2006 11:47:06 PM
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New political party, sounds great to me, although I am basicly a left minded person, I could quite happily support a centralist party, as I think many Australians could.

The idea of no State executive appeals also, the two main political parties are manipulated by a select few in State executives, to the detriment of individual electorates, I am in the process of expanding my knowledge on Save Australia, as David Boaz is, I like what I see so far.

A centralist party could encompass the views of all but the extreme left or right, and I agree it is time for a new political force, where preferences would be distributed, should be up to the individual.
Posted by SHONGA, Monday, 2 January 2006 1:59:15 AM
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We the political thinkers in this country may see problems with the current two Party dominance, but the people had a chance with the threat of One Nation and did they respond? I know the Party I'm involved with preceeded ON with similar policies, except for the aboriginal policy. In fact our slogan was, "One Nation under God" [using the phrase from the preamble to the Federal constitution] and some of the key people moved to become foundation members of One Nation.

I think this Forum could become a political action or lobby group rather than a Party. Because our opinions are so diverse and often conflicting it would end up like both the Major Parties with right and Left factions and splinter groups.

However drafted Petitons could be formulated and linked on the Right Hand side of this page, so if people agree with the petition they could click to open the page, download and fill in their personal details, and post to the appropiate body or Government Member.

But could a petition formulated by Greg Barnes in all honesty be supported by most of us here? We would need several options. This of course is going to put Govt Departments in overload in reading and answering submissions. More Govt staff and still not much action, as they do their own thing anyway e.g. Cronulla decellenation plant.
Posted by Philo, Monday, 2 January 2006 6:04:41 AM
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New partys fall like hail but remodeling the ones we have may be an option.
The radical left are trying to ignore some Muslims are behaveing in a way I consider both raceist and criminal.
And will those trying to hide this be brave enought to stand by the opinions they hold today? ,after the problem gets ar worse?
alowe police to act now or regrete it forever.
Posted by Belly, Monday, 2 January 2006 6:30:34 AM
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Don't touch the "Save Australia" organisation.They propose putting donations in private accounts and no receipts given?Sounds like a way of making a few people rich.Only donate to officially registered parties.

I don't think Greg Barnes actually believes what he espouses.I think it is all about Greg elevating his profile to further his career.
This is the best Greg has ever achieved in terms of comments.

I suggest Greg your next article be entitled,"Mother Theresa was too right wing and needs to show more compassion"
Posted by Arjay, Monday, 2 January 2006 7:44:05 AM
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Currently politicians are selected by their party to stand on party lines. What we need is for the people to select those that run. A new party should call for nominations for particular portfolios and applicants should set out how they will operate that portfolio in the interests of the people in statuary declarations. Then at elections, people would vote for the best policy for the portfolio.

To stop the current trend of lying, they would have to set out exactly their strategy just like any person applying for management. Require them to be accountable yearly and if they don't live up to their plan, they are thrown out without a cent in payment. Pay politicians a small retainer and then pay them extra on actual performance, if they don't' perform, no pension, nor payment at all. Same with senior beaurucrats

We must run this country as a proper business. What business person would sell their best assets to their opposition, which is what we do now. This leaves the shareholders of the country paying their opposition (Big monopolies) for what they own, with no return. This is a really stupid approach, the resources of the country should be for the benefit of the people, not the moronic elite.

Make politicians, senior bureaucrats and judges responsible for their decisions, just like us and make them performance based. Any other way would be a just a repeat of the present disaster.

Note that the conniving interests are already trying undermine it before it starts. Must have god in it, revamp the old parties, have an executive that can over rule the people. Keep up repeating the past mistakes and just like all failed isms, you can see the future results from their past history. To have something new, you must leave the old behind and not drag it with you, or it is still the old in different clothes But then again I know how petrified people are of something that is different, even if it is better. Change and difference is an evil thing, for those possessed by the past
Posted by The alchemist, Monday, 2 January 2006 8:37:52 AM
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Part 1 of 3

Every one

Arjay is trying to be a leader, >>Don't touch the "Save Australia" organisation.They propose putting donations in private accounts and no receipts given?Sounds like a way of making a few people rich.Only donate to officially registered parties.<<

WHERE DID Arjay GET THIS CRAP? Not from Tonny Pitt or the SAVE AUSTRALIA ALLIANCE.

DON'T TAKE Arjay's ADVICE. He is trying to kill something before it gets started.

The info that I have found on Tonny Pitt's site and from others who think they know, no salaries are paid, everything is done by volunteers, donations always fall short and are subsidized from the pockets of Tonny Pitt and other volunteers.

Tonny pitt has only months to live, because of cancer related illness, still don't be afraid to put him or others on the spot, make his day, he likes to stand on a soap box and give account. I have asked him to give account of donations, past and future.

Put Tonny on the spot, ask your own questions, email him.
patopitt@bigpond.net.au
A.R.(Tony)Pitt,79 Ferry St,Maryborough-Qld 4650 – Phone 07-4122 1412

In reply to my query on the Sydney riots. :-

Media reporters,camera crew, and interviewers. They are the spin doctors stir the sesspool to give any event the power to harm Australia's image here and overseas. Working out who is who and why is like sorting a spew bucket with tweezers. We are being bombarded with the Sydney Race Riots. Who are the key players?

THE SKIN HEADS

These fall into two categories - the bright and not bright. The bright ones work for ASIO. They are agent provocateurs who recruit dumb unemployed men who are sick of seeing jobs go to migrants, tired of seeing their girlfriends abused and insulted by the Leb Youth Gangs, jealous of the Mediterranean Welfare cheats who live off our tax money, work full-time and drive flash cars.
THE NAZIS

These wear the Hitler regalia (borrowed from the ABC wardrobe). They serve to brainwash our youth into believing there is an anti-Jew movement in Australia so the Jews can whip themselves into a frenzy of self pity to justify their invasion, murder and genocide in Palestine.
Posted by GoldBrick, Monday, 2 January 2006 1:59:11 PM
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Part 2 of 3

THE UNIONS: These provide the buses, the funds, the signs, the slogans and the $10 per hour rent-a-mob.

THE COMMUNISTS: These are the same tired old thugs who bully and push anyone with a contrary view off the streets. Their agenda hasn’t changed in 45 years. In his book RED OVER BLACK Geoff McDonald told how the Communist school at Minto (NSW) taught how racial tension was to be used to divide Australians into bitter fighting groups.

THE ABORIGINES: These 3/4 and 7/8 white, red headed, blue eyed, slant eyed sons of convicts, Afghans, Malays, Indians, Chinese will march anywhere to convince viewers that they are victims of Whiteman invasion. They pretend they live in squalor because of neglect not because they have vandalised nearly every home we built and rebuilt. They say they are sick because we deny them medical care not because they have destroyed the liver with booze. They pretend they are poor because we deny them welfare not because they spend all on the TAB etc.

INTERNATIONAL SOCIALISTS: These are a cut above the Commos. They genuinely believe in the brotherhood of man. They have never seen outside the tourist traps. They haven’t encountered the corrupt police, customs, airport officials, border guards and check points where the real Asia swirls in slime, where you could be framed for drugs, robbed by officials, set upon by pirates, hacked to death by religious nuts, or burnt to death in you car for daring to practice Christianity.

THE STUDENTS: These are well meaning air heads, fed bull by Marxist teachers, feeling their way in the world but denied any contact with those who have practical experience in foreign lands and local politics.

THE TEACHERS: These are in the main the incestuous product of years of Marxist influence in schools. They are two or three generations removed from reality by previous generations of Commo Air Heads teaching Commo Air Heads.

To be continued.
Posted by GoldBrick, Monday, 2 January 2006 2:02:45 PM
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It's really good to know that the majority of people here have commonsense and have ripped Greg Barnes nonsense article to shreds.

Australians racist? Compared to who? The Japanese? The Middle-East?

Those cultures which practise ethnic marriages, employ only their own kind, don't let their kids mix with those from other cultures, are racists.

How many mixed couples have you seen that doesn't involve a white? It's almost unheard of.

My opinion is that north-western Europeans are the ONLY cultures that aren't racist. It's only that such cultures acknowledge racism exists. Even some Italians, Greeks that I know, third generation, still are only allowed to marry one of their own, particularly daughters. Tell me one white Australian family that thinks this way....anybody?

This is like saying that paedophillia only exists in the Christian church because it is only they who acknowledge it exists! In truth though, the mosques would be the worst for it. I seen a case in Britain that a family brought foward against a cleric assaulting a six year old girl (although to be fair, the cleric would only be following the prophet's example) but it was dropped because of death threats from other parishiners! Nice people hey!

Greg Barnes, if you're reading, you need to look at the shocking racism all over the non-western world, institutional practises as I've pointed out, not a few words from drunks on a beach - which only happened after years of abuse from superior minded Muslim bigots.

Grow up.
Posted by Benjamin, Monday, 2 January 2006 2:40:26 PM
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I agree we Australians are far from being rasist, although there is always the small majority who make us seem as if we are.
Posted by christiedavies, Monday, 2 January 2006 3:36:44 PM
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Goldbrick,re Save Australia.This is what's on their website,
"Govts want our financial details and membership lists.You can give anybody money and there are no legal requirements for that person to give a receipt.Keep all money belonging to your group or electorate in private hands."

These are their own words.Who is going to do the audits if Govt doesn't know the group exits and the money is kept in private hands with seemingly very little documentation.It makes me very suspicious.Doesn't sound like a very ethical group to me.Perhaps they need a writer to make them sound more professional.

Perhaps you can clarify some points.
Posted by Arjay, Monday, 2 January 2006 4:55:35 PM
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Ajay,
If they remember why Pauline Hanson was stripped of her electoral funding they might not want to contribute funds to private hands. Seems if that is true, they are trying a tactic to avoid transparency to the Electoral Act. Unless we can change Public opinion by open and honest means we will never gain the confidence of the voters.
Posted by Philo, Monday, 2 January 2006 5:07:02 PM
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When I saw Bob Brown at constitution dock waiting for the Japanese whaler boat to arrive so he could jump up and scream at cultural difference that appalled him I wanted to yell RACIST.

Why, I don't know. I am against killing whales, maybe his ilk have taught me too well that you cannot say anything negative about another culture without being called racist.

Anyways I don't like Japan killing whales so I will admit, along with Bob Brown, am RACIST.
Posted by Verdant, Monday, 2 January 2006 8:28:44 PM
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TEAM !

some things to keep in mind.

1/ I'm sensing that there is a groundswell of passion regarding our Australian cultural heritage. (and other issues)

2/ The Save Australia Alliance, no matter what we may think of it (I have serious reservations ) has great value in that it shows us how an INformal political movement can gather momentum. I found the read about the 'BBQ' meetings fascinating, as I did the self destruction of it's first incarnation due to the formalising of it. (and subsequent in-fighting)

3/ The Cronulla trouble has taught us the impact and power of an SMS CAMPAIGN to notify and motivate thousands of people at critical times.

Putting all this together, it may well be possible that this groundswell of concern, can be channeled into (rather than hijacked) a movement of 'people power' and become hugely significant at the next election. (or before)

In Vic, Bracks is tightening free speech and home education laws !
Election in Nov 06

As would-be candidates become aware of this movement, they will presumably adopt policies which are in tune with where the 'people' are headed.(specially Independants)

The challenge is to convince them that the voting public is actually IN FAVOR of policies that the media would currently crucify as 'discriminatory and racist' etc

I was pleasantly surprised to find the SAA has a plank of 'Peoples Bank' just as I've been raving on about.

The main issues seem to be:

1/ IMMIGRATION and SETTLEMENT. Numbers, races, religions and who is actually controlling these.

2/ RULE OF LAW and its even handed enforcement.

3/ CULTURAL COHESIAN

4/ UNCONTROLLED ECONOMIC RATIONALISM (selling our country to transnationals)
This includes 'competition policy' 'senseless, negatively impacting tarrif removal' Outsourcing of low AND hi tech jobs to o'seas.

I would add 'corrections' to be Government run.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Monday, 2 January 2006 9:07:54 PM
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A couple of observations.

If anyone needs proof that ‘Civics’ should be reintroduced to the school curricular, they need look no further than the preceding posts!
In the name of expediency, I can highly recommend ‘The MacMillan Dictionary of Australian Politics’ as a simple, user-friendly reference that - if read alone - would help to stamp out the startling inaccuracies evidenced in many of the comments and relating to our system of governance, the differences between policy and law, ministerial and judicial accountability, pre-selection processes, Political Party status and the distribution of preferences.

Debate, disagreement and dissent are all VITAL components for the health and progress of any society but for goodness sake, know the basics whatever the topic - it makes any argument more influential and as such, more powerful.

Oh and Barns doesn’t need to write on the topic of Mother Teresa as suggested - Christopher Hitchens has done that for us all in his brave and detailed book ‘The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice’ and took his critic all the way to the Vatican - personally!
Posted by Gayle Rogers, Monday, 2 January 2006 9:34:43 PM
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We have wandered from the thread of late havent we?
New partys and new paths? hardly needed!
We do however need to ask again and again what good can come from ignoreing raceism from a minority?
The Wil Robinson true left and truely lost in space would scream blue murder if I burnt the flag of another country, but silently execpts ours being burnt.
In no way do I overlook mainstream raceism in this event ,nore will I overlook the provacations that lead to it.
Posted by Belly, Monday, 2 January 2006 10:58:12 PM
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Gayle:

I thought "Sacred Cow", the original title of that book, was better. His publishers seemed reluctant to use it. His line was it is a triple entendre and that is something to be proud of.

Apparently there is a documentary that goes with it.
Posted by Mr.P.Pig, Monday, 2 January 2006 11:12:17 PM
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Letter to the "The alchemist". I adore you, especially for the yummy science lesson. Happy New Year and TA!
Posted by miacat, Tuesday, 3 January 2006 11:14:31 AM
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Gayle Rogers ponificates generalisations from the lofty rule of political and electoral procedures and then makes no specific remarks to why the she thinks previous bloggers are an ignorant abyss.

Could Gayle really be Greg Barns in drag?I say this because Gayle has suddenly materialised from cyber space in defence of Greg with no previous bloggs recorded on OLO.Graham would soon know since he could track the email back to a single computer.Oh the intrigue!Is Greg feeling the blow torch of his flawed perceptions?

How about some specific examples Gayle and not just generalised innuedos that try to paint us as some lower form of troglodytes.
Posted by Arjay, Tuesday, 3 January 2006 11:50:18 AM
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Australias image is being further damaged by an assistant professor from Woolongong University - Peter Kell, writing articles from the same political position as Greg Barnes in the Jakarta Post.

We have people such as Greg Barnes and Peter Kell stirring up racist anger here and in Indonesia about Australia being a racist country.

Is it any wonder Indonesians hate Australians when they read rubbish like this. Obviously these type have a subversive left wing political agenda. The real enemy of Australia is within our own borders, and it's not the Howard Govt they believe is the culprit, but themselves.
Posted by Philo, Tuesday, 3 January 2006 12:32:57 PM
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Arjay, regardless of being almost 6ft tall when wearing a pair of strappy black slingbacks, I'm all woman, baby and not easily confused with the tall, dark and difficult one from Hobart. In addition, I can't imagine that Greg Barns would ever contemplate hiding behind a nickname in order to express his views and nor would I so it appears you are wrong on all counts.

I used "in the name of expediency" in my original post for good reason so there's no need for further comment there.

I've read OLO for some time and have enjoyed many articles and the further reading they have inspired me to undertake. I made my first post yesterday as I was so surprised at some of the comments; not the opinions - as I believe everyone has a right to their own whether I agree or strenuously disagree - but the underpinning inaccurate assumptions about the way our system works.

In the name of goodwill this time I'll give you one example. We already have in place a system of government that incorporates Ministerial Responsibility and Accountability so there is no need to reinvent the wheel. Community dissatisfaction stems not from a lack of a workable system but from the 'leadership' of the first Prime Minister in our history to totally ignore such responsibilities for transparent and accountable decision making. The effects of such a position held over a decade are slow to surface but robust and devastating to health of our democracy.

I'm sure Ros Kelly (the now whiteboard phobic former Hawke Govt Minister) thinks of this daily.

Finally I've never believed that wanting to be better informed is a lofty pursuit or position to hold - just logical and reasonable.
And hopefully I'm not alone.

Take care,

Gayle. (not Greg)
Posted by Gayle Rogers, Tuesday, 3 January 2006 3:27:07 PM
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Well, Mr Barnes, I certainly despair of the country in which you live. Why is it exactly that you get out of bed in the morning?
You live in a pigsty? That must be very unpleasant for you but I am sure that with the right amount of application you should be able to work your way out of it. Hope Paul's Zegna suit is dry cleanable
Does it ever cross your mind that this sort of diatribe actually promotes cross-cultural antagonism?
The sooner that self-appointed social judges, such as yourself, have gone the way of the dodo the sooner that real change will be possible.
Posted by Craig Blanch, Wednesday, 4 January 2006 11:07:38 AM
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This is off topic I know - however Baoz mentioned the march of uncontrolled economic rationalism and the selling off of Australia - I only mention it as Berri - once a famous Australian name - has been recently sold to a Philipinnes interest.

Add that to the Free Raid Agreement between us and the USA (5% down on exports and 5% up on US imports) - you really get something that threatens "our", what ever it is, way of life.

And we must remember this things aren't stolen from us "we" or at least those who have got something to sell, sell them off - that is truly the Autralian way.

And when you've got squillions the notion of social cohesion and harmony dont bother you overly much as the clamour in the streets rarely floats to the top of the penthouse suites.

The rest of this ballyhoo is a side show. Much like Mr Barnes in this instance.

And now they are reviewing the ammnedment geared to protect the PBS from the rapacious drug companies and their evergreening strategy - I trust the sugar lobby is asking our Government to ask the USA to look at the fact the notion of a free sugar market was left off the table totally - some how I doubt it will get a look in.

And if you can be bothered check out the increase of wholly produced Over seas advertisements on Commercial Television ( it is a big ask I know) - once even an overseas based prodct generated home grown ads with the attendant jobs - now many are direct imports; Subway is a good example, and several toys ads are another.

You want to talk take over,destruction of cultural values, the erosion of our way of life; get off the Islamic stallion or whatever other xenophobic hobby-horse your on 'cause the real horse has long since bolted.
Posted by sneekeepete, Wednesday, 4 January 2006 2:50:01 PM
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Craig

Spot on post! Thanks mate.

Cheers
Kay
Posted by kalweb, Wednesday, 4 January 2006 6:29:56 PM
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Gayle "In the name of goodwill this time I'll give you an example."If this is not an arrogant statement from some aloof public servant,then I'm gobsmacked.Public servant speak is all about disinformation.It is the art of confusion,double speak and deception.It seeks to relegate the individual to subserviance, in the name of some illogical politically correct statement.Public Servant speak is not the language of courage and clarity,it is all about authority without reason or accountability and covering their own incompetent backsides when the inevitable stuff ups occur.

Gayle,Quote "...lack of leadership from our first Priminister in our history totally ignores such responsibilities for transparent and accountable decision making."

I presume you meant Edmond Barton and not John Howard.Has Edmond Barton corrupted John Howard all preceeding leaders?Really ,a very long bow.

Sorry Gayle ,your example lacks clarity,courage and perception.
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 4 January 2006 8:05:46 PM
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Hi all,

A quick look at my previous post should clear up the confusion generated by Arjay's misquote and resulting reference to Barton.

Apologies to anyone who felt I was unclear, arrogant or disrespectful as that certainly were not my intention.

I am, however, perceptive enough to know that any further posts on my part will likely evoke yet another unnecessarily personal and bizarre response from Arjay and given I’ve written what I wanted to, there seems no logical reason to continue.

It’s all been terribly amusing though. I’ve never been accused of lacking courage before - nor have I ever been mistaken for an arrogant, unclear, innuendo-driven, defender of Greg Barns whilst actually BEING Greg Barns in drag.

Thank goodness the Public Service is an equal opportunity employer!

Cheers and I hope you all have a wonder filled 2006.

Gayle.

PS: For anyone genuinely wanting to actively participate in a grass-roots driven revival of the ALP, there is much that can be done.
May I recommend www.laborfirst.com.au/ as a starting place.
Posted by Gayle Rogers, Wednesday, 4 January 2006 9:21:59 PM
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Gayle, Don't apologize, Your posts were as transparent and clear as they should be. And not everyone that posts here are the full quid.
I'll let you work out the rest. Cheers
Posted by Rainier, Wednesday, 4 January 2006 10:07:13 PM
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Ranier.. and not everyone expresses "soon you will be dead haha" kind of sentiments.. you have quite a long road to rehabilitation after that effort friend ! so please try not to be so cocky.

Gayle.. please don't cut and run... if you have public service experience, your continued input would be valued. Don't worry about a few verbal 'punches' just roll with them and come back a-fightin :)

I was hoping you would fill in some blanks about what you were alluding to in terms of how policies etc are made..and how parties work.

CRAIG.. yes, as Kay said.."Spot on"

I think the sedition laws should be extended to cover such disgraceful social treachery as the likes of Barnes and Kell have demonstrated. That was not 'free speech' it was the deliberate and malicious undermining of this country !
Posted by BOAZ_David, Wednesday, 4 January 2006 10:21:56 PM
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David Boaz, You might think of yourself as OLO's self elected moral watchdog for your Judeo Christian God but I and others have very different opinions about "what you are". For the record I apologised for making a statement about a posters illness. His possible death is not in my hands.
Posted by Rainier, Wednesday, 4 January 2006 10:41:12 PM
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Isn't it odd Gayle that I could could pick your profession by your language.Is it any wonder that Labor has lost it's grass roots support like myself whose father used to wax lyrical about Bob Hawke.

The Latte sipping Chardonnay set denegrates the very system that gives them sustenance.Cling to your positive job discrimination since is the refuge of cowards and the inept.

Labor lost the courage and used leverage from the fringe minority groups to beat us into submission under the name of Multiculturalism.Anyone averse to any of the tenants of this philosophy was branded a racist.The broard concept of Multiculturalism can mean all manner of things.They threw any notions nationalism and assimilation out and replaced it with individual cultures that could please themselves.Labor became traitors to their own constituiency.We now have a society in serious degeneration with serious crime,and also in ethical and moral decline.

This politically correct culture that denies the truth for fear of offending the sensibilities of some deviant group makes liars of us all.So don't single out John Howard as the principal offender.We are all liars,including yourself Gayle because you have traded truth for political correctness just to gain a few more votes and delay the inevitable social conflicts we are experiencing now.

The left are on the back foot and are seeking some one to blame for a debacle of their own making.
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 4 January 2006 11:14:13 PM
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Australia is not a racist backwater. The problem is clearly emerging from the efforts of this forum that State and Federal governments have abandoned Australian citizens, causing despair and frustration.

They favour multinational companies which cultivate Australian citizens as semi literate consumers.
They favour skilled immigrants whom they do not need to pay to train.
Skilled immigrants only wish to compete with and use Australian citizens in whatever way they can to make their fortune. That is NOT an indictment of immigrants it is just human nature. If an immigrant's governmental benefactor DISRSPECTS its citizens then why should anyone else?

Government has made policy decisions such as HECS fees which facilitate this degradation of Australians in order to build a nation THEY can be proud of. But this is not the role of democratic government.
Democratic Goverments are elected to serve their constituencies not to sell them out to a dream of quick modernisation.

Now some on this forum have suggested alternative governments, but the start up time for such systems, the complexity of forming policy and the time taken to develop electoral trust would see us all in chains by the time they came to fruition.

Now one thing is in OUR favour. Governments have had no serious competiiton for many years. They have become lazy and degenerate as shown by recent PROPAGANDA. All WE need do is call them out on specific examples of this and use our democratic power to have specific truth-in-policy. Sometimes these propaganda policies seem insignificant, but they are based on lies that are eating away at the core of our freedom.
Posted by KAEP, Thursday, 5 January 2006 12:04:48 AM
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Continued ....

For example, to bring the Iemma machine back to reality two propaganda items glare:

1. If 7/10 people don't want a desal plant then there must be a good reason. To say that overpopulation means strains on water so we must produce more water to overpopulate Sydney by another 1,000,000 people. is a Barry Crocker.
2 . If Michael Costa's obsession with 'keep left unless overtaking' doesn't really mean 'Keep left unless SPEEDING.", it must be changed to "keep left unless travelling at speed limit".

And the Howard government:

1.If HECS fees discourage skilled Australians and allow easy foreign takeovers they must be abolished.
2. If Austalia's economic success is 90% to do with commodity prices, why is Howard saying its 90% to do with his policies? Why is he saying that commodity prices will fall and his sell out polices will be essential? Helloooo, Peak Oil guarantees King Coal is destined to turn Australia into the next Saudi Arabia. Commodities are set to SOAR!

To stop THE government sell out of Australian citizens all you need is to confront the propaganda and force government to abide by truth-in-policy. The above four examples are an excellent place to start and will do more to bring government into line with public expectation than any alternative government ever could.
Posted by KAEP, Thursday, 5 January 2006 12:06:57 AM
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This article is interesting in regard to the previous posting.

"Resources rule but is 'king coal' in it for the long haul."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/resources-rule-but-is-king-coal-in-it-for-the-long-haul/2006/01/05/1136387573054.html?page=2
Posted by KAEP, Friday, 6 January 2006 6:01:07 AM
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Racist Backwater?

Every single social and environmental problem can be addressed by everyone, and in particular the Iemma and Howard governments, acknowledging the earth's carrying capacity to be about 5-6 billion people, tops. Of Australia's carrying capacity to be about 20-23 million of those people. Right now, we're overpopulating capital cities exclusively for the benefit of consumer driven corporations and glassy eyed politicians. Consequently we are mining resources, not using them sustainably. Eventually, the bank is going to foreclose.
Posted by KAEP, Friday, 6 January 2006 6:33:20 AM
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KAEP,
Agreed on last 3 posts, however the majotity of the Australian electrote seem happier watching the Simpsons than the news, if they don't care enough to know what is happening around them, how on Earth do they form an opinion, one way or the other.

Also how do we as activists reach these people who couldn't care less?

I'm sure I have no idea....
Posted by SHONGA, Sunday, 8 January 2006 5:53:35 AM
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SHONGA asks “how do we as activists reach these people who couldn't care less?”

Try wearing out several pairs of leather shoes door to door in say some red neck corner of your electorate for starters. Tell them face to face what’s on your mind. I once tried that with a new ‘center’ party a few like me though we had to have. The issue of preference bartering nearly stewed us all. History repeats every generation or so-

On getting a swing: I Bet your ideas change first.
Posted by Taz, Sunday, 8 January 2006 11:25:13 PM
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Taz,

"On getting a swing: I Bet your ideas change first. "

Take a pill and chill.

Things clearly beyond your comprehension are occuring, driven by global capital and aided and abetted by weak and self serving governments.

When the opposition goes door to door with baseball bats, they have no trouble getting a swing in public sentiment. When governments allow this to happen without any arrests, I think you will find rational people will give you a swing. A swing to sustainable development ideologies and a moratorium on immigration till we find out just who is running this country.

Actually its more like a Gestalt than a swing. It is something that sits heavily on people's minds and will remain so until governments show some RESPECT to the folks who elected them
Posted by KAEP, Monday, 9 January 2006 7:23:28 AM
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To Miacat, thank you, I failed science and probably life, but I really do appreciate your support and kind words
Posted by The alchemist, Monday, 9 January 2006 3:29:55 PM
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Well, Barnsey, if the comments left by monocultural looneys and armchair nazis here are anything to go by, you might actually be right about Australia being a racist country. I just wish the people here at these forums would just come out and say how much they want an all-white all-Christian Australia. That way, I can start tendering for a govt contract to build gas chambers for my family and relatives ...
Posted by Irfan, Tuesday, 10 January 2006 4:10:35 PM
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Ifran,
What's getting to you ole-man. As a lawyer I thought you could be honest and rational and not emotionally reactive. No one here is talking of gas chambers or beheadings or any violent form of capital punishment; this type of punishment happens in Countries supported by people we want to see deported. Our answer to problems of racial/ cultural non assimiliation is deportation to a society where their values and ideals are practised. So people should blend into the fabric of our society and become a part or be snipped off as irrelavent threads.
Posted by Philo, Tuesday, 10 January 2006 5:37:58 PM
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Irfan:

Nazis, brownshirts. You seem fixated, unimaginative and tediously predictable. But are you really such a vile example of humanity that you would attempt to profit from the gassing of your own family?
Posted by Mr.P.Pig, Tuesday, 10 January 2006 6:10:20 PM
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I agree entirely with Greg Barns. It is well put, well thought, and on point.

I am dismayed by the reaction from the vast majority of subscribers to this site. I would call them the Legacy of Howard. Howard has done so much damage to the social fabric of this nation. These people are dancing to his tune of fake nationalism.

Isn't it extraordinary that in a country where nearly 25% of the population was born elsewhere, there is NOT A SINGLE DAY in the calendar to celebrate the contributions made by immigrants to this country?

Attacking Howard, and his despicable social agenda is defending Australia. Those who defend his reactionary and offensive form of politics are just as low as he is.

Bye for now.
Posted by EthnoAussie, Tuesday, 10 January 2006 8:06:01 PM
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I'm with you Greg.

Except you're braver/more idealistic than me.

I'd rather leave than stay and fight, as I don't believe this country is worth saving from itself. It abandoned that chance when it elected Howard and then keeps reinforcing it's lack of civilisation by re-electing his government.

The breadth of ignorance and fear in this country is truly shocking - all the more so when you consider the mongrel race we are..

As for the 'great unwashed' protecting our 'culture' - that's the biggest laugh I've had in ages - the best reason to go. The only good thing that could happen to this culture is a dose of penicillin..

You've got to be impressed that the swine can read and type, but I would take the comments as an example of what happens when you lie around in swill for too long.

cheers
Posted by Unaustralian, Tuesday, 10 January 2006 10:13:54 PM
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Gee Unaustralian - when are you leaving?

Diagnosis: bitter and twisted
Prognosis: no cure in sight
Alternative action: POQ to another country - preferably the North Pole
Coounselling Service: Rainier and Coach

See ya!
Kay
Posted by kalweb, Tuesday, 10 January 2006 10:29:09 PM
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Gee (an Americanism if ever I've heard one) Kay,

You're an perfect representative for this country and a great demonstration of the striving towards mediocrity that Australia is currently exhibiting. No rational argument or thought (deity forbid!) just the instinctive yob reaction.

Your kind make me laugh (they didn't for a long time) but now I'm almost shot of this country I no longer despair at what passes for discourse.

You're right in your prognosis - there is no cure in sight. I now believe this country actually deserves what's coming and, like our American cousins, the majority of you will be too stupid to see what's being done to our country until it's too late.. 'she'll be right, mate'.

It's been far too many years since I could travel the world as an Australian and have people say nice things about us. Now I no longer admit to being Australian, that way I don't have to apologise for it's behaviour.

You're just going to have to take my word that I'm not bitter about you lot. I couldn't be bitter and still get this much amusement out of the way Australians behave, so I'll admit to twisted. I'm glad I came back for a while to see this in all it's glory. I didn't believe what I was reading whilst I was overseas, but a few years back here has made sure I'll never doubt anything I read about this country ever again.

Sunshine and shark infested waters do not Heaven make..

Try posting again when you've got the brain cell working.. Then, by Australian standards you'll be an 'intellectual'.

cheers

PS Look out! There's a terrorist behind you! or is it a refugee? or is it a muslim?.....or an aboriginal? or a sole parent? (the last two were amongst the first targets of Howard back in 1997 - think of them as the groups he practised his scare tactic policies on).
Posted by Unaustralian, Tuesday, 10 January 2006 11:44:20 PM
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Hey Kay did you forget to leave the u out of coounselling ?.

So a few Lebs and Ozzy's have a punch up,and what have we got?, chystal nact 2.Geez Louise lets see, what do we have here?,we have posters giving us a three paragraph thesis on middle eastern culture,a diatribe blaming the crusades,quotes from the bible,The Lebanese being compared to Al Capone and murder incorperated,its all the Premiers fault,calling the Police wimps and unable to track an elephant in the snow, and for good measure disbaraging remarks about Aboriginals.I think I had better hide the wife and kids before they come for me,and turn me into a white slave.I have never read such utter bullsh@t in all my life.Greg you are spot on.

So a few of the boys go out for a belly full of piss,prowl the night clubs looking for jenny rotten crutch,and we have a race war.

When I was a teenager in the Army during the sixty's,If I got back to the base after a night out with the troops and didn't have a black eye or broken collar bone I would have thought "what a boring weekend".We prowled the pubs of Melbourne and Sydney and had a right good nights entertainment a fight a feed and a you know,if we got lucky.

We must all be turning into a nation of florists,have any of you posters been in a shearing shed or worked on the docks?I don't think so.Cause you see in some Ozzie environments you can get a pasting for passing wind at the wrong time.One of my best mates is a Lebo,the only time he's got pissed off with me is when I put a pork sandwhich in his lunch box,I should have called the immigration department and have him deported.

I know how to solve this problem,lets withdraw our Ambassador from Lebanon,(have we still got one? he may be hiding under the bed)take a deputation to the United Nations,get those Lebo ruffians to the Hague for crimes against humanity.And please no more pseudo intellectual clap trap,because I may throw up.
Posted by PHILB, Wednesday, 11 January 2006 5:39:50 AM
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Greg worshippers have shown similar disloyalty and vilification of Australia by attitude that degrade our democratic values. They prefer their exclusive left-wing views should prevail as a totalitarian State. They see John Howard as the problem. They are obviously frustrated by their inability to enforce their subversive left-wing agenda on the people of this nation. The way they degrade and devalue people as lesser than themselves - a truly racist attitude. PhilB is the typical yobbo in view in Greg's fire but he is blind [probably drunk].

Quote 1: "the vast majority of subscribers to this site. I would call them the Legacy of Howard. Howard has done so much damage to the social fabric of this nation. These people are dancing to his tune of fake nationalism".

Quote2: "I'd rather leave than stay and fight, as I don't believe this country is worth saving from itself. It abandoned that chance when it elected Howard and then keeps reinforcing it's lack of civilisation by re-electing his government."

Quote 3: "The breadth of ignorance and fear in this country is truly shocking - all the more so when you consider the mongrel race we are. As for the 'great unwashed' protecting our 'culture' - the best reason to go. You got to be impressed that the swine can read and type, but I would take the comments as an example of what happens when you lie around in swill for too long".

Quote 4: "No rational argument or thought just the instinctive yob reaction."

Quote 5: "The majority of you will be too stupid to see what's being done to our country until it's too late".

Quote 6: "When I was a teenager in the Army during the sixty's, If I got back to the base after a night out with the troops and didn't have a black eye or broken collar bone I would have thought "what a boring weekend". We prowled the pubs of Melbourne and Sydney and had a right good nights entertainment a fight a feed and a you know, if we got lucky."
Posted by Philo, Wednesday, 11 January 2006 6:55:46 AM
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Good on you, Greg Barns. I totally agree with your comments. In my opinion it is a crying shame to see how the current political and media environments (ABC and SBS excepted) - overtly and covertly encourage the growth and expression of the ugliest sides of this country's culture and history. I pity those many people who have lambasted you for your article... they are so closed and fearful of what this wonderful wide world can offer them. Maybe we could create a little village for them somewhere in the outback where they could all live in WHITE HEAVEN.... they could have closed circuit TV (American only), eat lamb chops and drink beer ... and leave the rest of us alone.
Posted by Bella Donna, Wednesday, 11 January 2006 10:57:05 AM
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It seems like Barns now has some of his pathetic cronies come and slag off at Aussie culture then run and hide as quickly as possible. Do us all a favour and leave the country never to return. My bet is that would move to a predominately white country, where they feel safety in numbers. It is hardly likely that they would move to Sudan, Zimbabwe or Malaysia. Bella Donna, Unaustralian and Barnsy should go to Malaysia and pay Muhammad Mahatir a visit. Mahatir can hold the whip, while you three can get on your hands and knees and beg for more.
Posted by davo, Wednesday, 11 January 2006 12:40:46 PM
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Hey Philo,did you say something naughty to me?cause they stuck an add right over you paragraph ref me.What does Philo mean?Philosopher!I dont think so.Philo lover of books,of course in your case you probably have only ever read one the Bible.Not quite as entertaining as most of Dickens works but never the less fiction just the same.

Look if your really scared of a Lebo invasion,away to the woods I say, go and live in a little hut some where.Take on some anti terrorist training,cause I know deep in your heart you think the indonesians are coming next. spend some time looking for answers to all the worlds problems in your little book.Notwithstanding it is your little book that causes most of the worlds ills.

So now its the left wing agenda causing all the racial problems,I am not even going to dignify that with a reply,suffice to say, scratch a Tory and you will always find deep down a racist,however tory's do have there uses lavatory's.

So as well as being drunk Im also blind. No Nada nien niet non,I have 20/20 vision,yobbos don't have there vision blinded by sophistry.You see most of them mix with the normal humans,and hence have an understanding of the world, people like you can only get from books.
Posted by PHILB, Wednesday, 11 January 2006 2:45:28 PM
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I have to agree with you Greg. Maybe our fellow countrymen should pay a little more attention to whats happening instead of having their heads buried in the sand.
Posted by Annette Barns, Wednesday, 11 January 2006 7:34:55 PM
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davo,
Well Greg was getting such a beating his tears of blood affected his friends so much that they came to his rescue. Note they are among the 9% who listen to left-wing radio, and watch the political bigotry of ABC and SBS.

They still believe communism is the best basis for society, so is it any wonder they so despise the rest of us working in free enterprise. They are frustrated by democracy because the majority voted in that demonic man - John Howard.
Posted by Philo, Wednesday, 11 January 2006 8:51:26 PM
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Just a small reminder for "Philo"..... that "demonic John Howard" was NOT voted to power by a majority of Australians. In fact the Labour Party received more votes at the last election. However, due to the Liberal Party and the Nationals combining with a coalition, he gained power. If "Family First" had not been preferenced by the Labour Party, (who subsequently gave their votes to the Liberals), then little Johnny wouldn't be where he is today. Get your facts straight,
Posted by Bella Donna, Thursday, 12 January 2006 8:23:45 AM
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Philo.Hey Philo so all the people who don't subscribe to your opinion about the so called race riots are communist.My God what a revelation,Id better turn myself in to the authority's for all of my fifth column activity's.Its just as well they didn't find out whilst I was running my own business,my staff and I may have ended up in a concentration camp.

I have noticed,just about any topic that comes up on this forum,where there has been input from conservatives, anyone with a contradictory opinion is assumed to be a commo.What twaddle.

Your blast ref the A.B.C./SBS ref political bigotry is very trite.Remember cash for comment on the commercial network?.Probably not.

For your information it was the A.B.C that exposed one of your paragons of virtue, Joe Bjelke Peterson and the corrupt and rotten to the core government in Qld.Remember "dont you worry about that"Brother!
You probably have a picture of Russ Hinze on your bedside table.

As pointed out in the post by bella donna-I will add to this.It is not the first time in history, and it probably wont be the last, the Labor Party(according to you all commos)has had a majority of the vote but failed to form government because of the gerry mander that still prevails in this country.But according to you its probably democracy in action.Yea Right!

Australians do not like overly re-actionery governments,and as sure as night follows day,our demonic John Howard will fall.The poms put up with the conservatives for a long time to be sure,but when they finally went to far they were destroyed and now hold there meetings in a telephone box.Enjoy your time in the sun.All things must pass.
Posted by PHILB, Thursday, 12 January 2006 2:14:47 PM
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Big Fish,
a. Western music per se is not banned in Iran – only certain forms of popular music
b. Christian girls – just because they are Christian – are not beheaded in Asia.
c. Religious strife occurred in Australia - Ned Kelly fought for recognition of Irish rights. “The Stolen Generations” had their religion taken from them because we had something “better” to force down their necks.
d. Yes. The experience of aboriginals during the early conquest of Australia. Settlers poisoning aboriginals with strychnine, raping their women, going out on Sundays shooting aboriginals as a sport.
e. One of the reasons African tribes fight each other today is because of European White colonial (amongst them British) landgrabbing of Africa in the 19th century.
f. While Australia does not detain millions in death camps, we have moved aboriginal people off their land, deprived them of their language and culture, broken families up – commited genocide (go read your dictionary for the exact meaning of that word)
g. See “f” regarding practice of religion.
h. Do you rely on reportage from the U.S. only – from those “embedded” reporters for your unbiased information. We can’t say today that Iraqis are free… only time will tell if they get that – democracy cannot be imposed from outside, It must grow within a nation’s culture.
i. Dear Big Fish – we are ALL immigrants to Australia – from 200 years ago to today. Economic immigrants or refugees hear about this country and want to live here. When they learn about the riots in Cronulla they may think twice.
j. Being one of the richest per capita countries in the world, it is our duty to give to the people of the world who have nothing. Our gross consumerism is not only destroying their economies, but destroying their tomorrows.
k. Your term – detained refugees – implies that they are somehow not worthy of being here. Although you don’t mention it, perhaps you mean “illegal immigrants” – well, arriving in a country, even Australia, without a passport and visa is not a crime.
Posted by Bella Donna, Thursday, 12 January 2006 4:15:25 PM
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some from the true left are so lost truth will never catch them.
Just this night Sky news started its 7 pm news bullitin with a story of extremely bad behavior outside a court that sent a young man to prison for his part in stealing and burning an Australian flag.
His friends took to the press and some film was shown, but censored and not shown in the news.
We Australians are not racists! some minoritys are, and we go too far in covering this up and pretending it is not true!
Leftist take note most Australians includeing this ALP member are sickened by political corecness and lies, truth will do me.
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 12 January 2006 6:45:10 PM
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Greg Barns is pretty close to the mark. After 10 years of little Johnny it is hard not to despair. We can try and deflect it as no more than a crime issue or assert that Asia is more intolerant than us but you can't deny that this is who we are and what we are about under Howard. It is not an accident, a beat up, or the work of the Nazi's. This was flag waving, holden driving, sunscreen on the nose, went to nippers and cubs, battling Aussies looking to bash all those 'sly lebs' that 'Jonesy' was telling us about. They were Howard's battlers and that is why he won't condemn them. This is his Australia and all those people that voted for him have to own it. Relaxed and comfortable, alert but not alarmed... sleep well.

Bob B
Posted by Bob B, Thursday, 12 January 2006 10:02:42 PM
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Bella Donna,
I ask for your apology for your arrogance and spreading misinformation about the 2004 Election. Please get you facts straight. The official election results show John Howard won both first past the post and by preference:

Liberals 40.9%
Nationals 5.9%
Labor 37.7 %
Greens 7.2 %
Democrats 1.2%
One Nation 1.1 %
Others 6 %

Quote Bella, "Just a small reminder for "Philo"..... that "demonic John Howard" was NOT voted to power by a majority of Australians. In fact the Labour Party received more votes at the last election. However, due to the Liberal Party and the Nationals combining with a coalition, he gained power. If "Family First" had not been preferenced by the Labour Party, (who subsequently gave their votes to the Liberals), then little Johnny wouldn't be where he is today. Get your facts straight."

You are so misinformed that your information is laughable; Typical emotive atheistic left wing impressionist propaganda.
Posted by Philo, Thursday, 12 January 2006 10:08:04 PM
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Philo old chap,

Along with Bella Donna dragging her knuckles along the ground with her research and some of her assertions (which rankle me no end) it is quite obvious that you yourself might be a product of the Christopher Skase school of accounting with some of your own wild assertions.

If, as you so grandly point out that the little fraud did actually gain 40.9% of the vote, there is still another 59.1% of the population that did not vote for him.

Now when I went to school, 59.1% was substantially somewhat more than 40.9%, and now that I am in my dotage, I really do know and understand that mathematics actually change over time, however I am just not able to get my head around how 40.9% is now a majority and has given him the “mandate” he so claims, so in the words of the poor racist politician from Queensland …. “PLEASE EXPLAIN…..?”
Posted by Kekenidika, Thursday, 12 January 2006 11:51:00 PM
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A note for Philo. Your accusation of me promoting "typical emotive, atheistic, left wing, impressionist propaganda" is ridiculous and requires not further comment. More important though, we have all noticed that you do not address the more substantial issues of the dirty side of European colonisation of Australia and the inherent attitudes of racist supremacy that implies. Remember? we were actually discussing materialism and racism in Australia. (By the way, I recommend that you take a quick spelling course)
Posted by Bella Donna, Friday, 13 January 2006 9:39:50 AM
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Racism, Backwater, Materialism?

It is our duty to our global capital masters and to their branch stacked, tunnel funnel Governments to be racist and materialistic. Why? Because it SELLS. And because it distracts us from seeing that overpopulation, the cornerstone of Greenspanian economic growth is the real enemy. Another 70,000 'pretty' units along Paramatta road, another million people in an ALP owned Sydney and a desal plant in sheep's clothing are what should be giving us nightmares? But we are taught by TV, media and gaming consoles to fight each other, SPEND up and be materialistic. If racism oils the wheels of this process so much the better. The more HECSY obstacles to our education, the better. The richer our elitist masters get the better. They can always use their overtaking lanes to SPEED around the traps they create.

I suspect that what is happening is, Governments realize they aren't going to reach the level of wealth needed to establish necessary vast infrastructure reforms before we are Rwanda-fied by crushing population growth.

Study some primary sources on what happened in Rwanda, and in Burundi next door -- much of it had to do with carrying capacity and brutal crowding. People were interviewed who testified that they killed members of THEIR OWN tribe, and even relatives, because they knew they would starve. And more important, they felt they were losing their IDENTITY.

Much of the world's population will not achieve the wealth to be able to develop necessary infrastructure before Greenspanian economics brings a global overpopulation meltdown. Until we bite the bullet and demand a control on population growth, at the very least a moratorium on immigration, we will be no different from any other developing nation in the world today. It does little good to reflect on how you will behave in a cattle car on the way to this modern Auchwitz. You WILL behave badly and anarchy will prevail. It's not, as they say, "rocket science". It's more a question of whether we heed our mother's bated warning --" Don't take money (or X city tunnels) from strangers!" .
Posted by KAEP, Saturday, 14 January 2006 6:26:19 AM
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For Kekenidika and Bella Donna sake whose maths is appalling. They feel if one doesn't gain 51% PRIMARY vote they're a fraud and not mandated government. They believe Mark Latham's the more worthy candidate that should've governed Australia with 37.7% of the primary vote. They're obviously formed in the same mould as Mark when it comes to numbers and "Hate".

There's no dictionary that defines the majority as 51% of the primary vote, [unless only two candidates] though it's obvious if one gained 51% it would be a majority. However if only two run and one gained 49% the other 48% and there's 3% informal then according to Bella and Keken neither would have a majority or mandate to govern. Obviously they have never shared a pie where they had to discard 3% as not consumerable and one got 1% more than the other. If they had children that would hear "he got more than me".

You're dishonest to assume 59.1% gave their primary or preferences to Mark Latham. We know you preferred Mark Latham over John Howard but that does not mean the 22% who did not give their primary vote to John Howard actually preffered Mark Latham. In reality it indicated the 22% preferred John Howard therefore he has the majority of preference.

If you have a case of John Howard committing Electoral fraud I suggest you take it to to appropiate body for examination.
_______________________________
Quote, "as you so grandly point out that the little fraud did actually gain 40.9% of the vote, there is still another 59.1% of the population that did not vote for him."

Now when I went to school, 59.1% was substantially somewhat more than 40.9%, and now that I am in my dotage, I really do know and understand that mathematics actually change over time, however I am just not able to get my head around how 40.9% is now a majority and has given him the "mandate" he so claims, - PLEASE EXPLAIN..?"
__________________________
Obviously this may take several lessons for the unskilled mind. However all maths lessons are now closed.
Posted by Philo, Saturday, 14 January 2006 7:48:22 AM
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Appendix:
Since Bella Donna in her post quoted the preferences of Family First here are the facts.

Liberals 40.9% + Nationals 5.9% = 46.8%

Labor 37.7 % + Greens 7.2 % + Democrats 1.2% = 46.1%

Even if the One Nation 1.1 % and Other [including Family First] were spit evenly FF had no impact on the primary outcome as she claimed.
NOTE: 46.8% is and always will be greater than 46.1
Posted by Philo, Saturday, 14 January 2006 8:30:30 AM
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Greg Barn’s obviously must hold shares in:”The plastic’s industry”; that produces buckets, I have filled a few after reading that. Fairdinkum.
And who still thinks there is not a mental health issue to be addressed?
It is conclusive. But there is a glimmer of hope in the commentary section.
Posted by All-, Saturday, 14 January 2006 9:38:11 AM
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It was people like Bella Donna who made it clear to this PROUD ALP member we would face nothing less than a landslide against us 3 months before Howards victory.
Very little is wrong with mainstream Australia, Barns and a few posters here should consider truth as an option to the rubbish posted here.
Multi culturism is doing very well here, sadly so is minority racism based sometimes on bigotry.
The ALP path to election victory must be in the middle of the road never the left lane, and never travelling against the flow.
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 17 January 2006 4:45:46 AM
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The NSW ALP wants us to believe we have become a materialistic, racist Backwater so we become guilt ridden and susceptible to new draconian government legislation. Then they say that multi culturism (sic) is doing very well, thank you very much. This clever ALP conundrum at once paves the way for more government control over our lives and at the same time, more immigration, more votes more power, bigger taxes and more social instability.

Here's the LIE:

Belly ---> The ALP path to election victory must be in the middle of the road, never the left lane, and never travelling against the flow?

Here's the TRUTH:

The ALP path to election victory must be in the middle of the road?

For that is where the NSW ALP has legislated that you can exceed the SPEED limit to overtake and you can overtake for ever, even though we all know there is no such thing as safe speeding.

Never the left lane?

For that is where the 90% of inferior citizens, those that don't rate good hospitals, trains, police or schools, have to stay unless they want to be tailgated, road raged, shot at or baseball batted.

And never travelling against the flow?

The flow of 1,000,000 NEW ALP voters tucked into Liberal seats so as to change the political landscape in NSW, forever to be LABOR. The flow of desal water that inferior citizens have a year to discuss and vote on before the ALP signs contracts anyway, most likely with MacBank, Bob Carr's new employer. A desal plant touted by the worst ALP propaganda since Hitler, as the solution to overpopulation so we can continue to overpopulate Sydney with another million ALP voting immigrants.
Posted by KAEP, Tuesday, 17 January 2006 8:31:50 AM
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Here's the ANSWER:

To solve this lapse of truth, all NSW citizens need do is force a change to the "Keep Left Unless Overtaking" sign to "Keep Left Unless Travelling at Speed Limit".

This one simple change is all it will take. The light of truth will shine on the NSW ALP. It will be seen for what it has become, spoiled and self aggrandised since having dictatorial powers conferred on it for the 2000 Olympics. And in this light we will see it's true colours and form ... A cockroach scurrying for the nearest rock to hide under.
Posted by KAEP, Tuesday, 17 January 2006 8:32:52 AM
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Bet you do not realy beleave your own post Left lane? surely you understand just what I said?
My love of the ALP and just what it could be again is forever.
My contempt for the last campaign and the ALP leader existed months before the tragic events that self muterlation that gave away workers rights.
Labor will in time take that mainstream road ,it may well be with Bill Shorten driveing , lets hope the motor starts soon , its stalled at present.
And this thread remains a lie we are no racist backwater, some racists however are from minoritys, truth remains truth.
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 31 January 2006 6:43:31 PM
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I just have to say as a younger citizen of Australia who looks in from the outside rather than from the middle of the 'fun', most of the people responding to this article are correct. Australia IS a multicultral society, but somehow people don't seem to know the meaning of this word?
Everyone in Australia has either a different background nationality or has immigrated recently. I am referring to the few two hundered years ago that this fine country began. Our population was built on immigrants, so i do not understand why today we have camps such as Baxter to lock free people up in. These people have no homes, and now their only home is the cold hearted welcoming of jail with love from Australia. Exscuse the high modality but it really fires me up when people have the nerve to accuse other countries of crimes against themseleves when we are no different. The fact that racism is now a becoming issue in Australia is shameful, our country is beautiful and so are the people if only each one of us realised it, if we shared more trust for one another, the example we set would be a proud one for our children.

John Howard has exploited racism.
Racism is on the rise (though not by all and not from one individual party).
And for all the people who questioned the high biased and modality in the article written by this man, it was to get your attention. It was to get you thinking, it was so you could question yourselves. Like one man quoted from Zimbabwee " I have never heard anyone admit to being racist these people say: "I'm not racist...but"

Shamefully i admit to speaking these very words, and shamefully i admit to making racist remarks. So ask yoursleves this question if you have doubt: "how much do i care for the other"
Posted by anotherbrickinthewall, Monday, 4 September 2006 3:35:37 PM
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anotherbrickinthewall,

Baxter and other Detention Centres were not built to keep out certain races; it was built to detain entrants from any country who have entered Australia illegally; that includes Europeans as well. They have violated our National security, so must be established as worthy entrants.

The fact is we have legal migrants from every nation and culture on the Earth, and they have made legal application to enter Australia.

The fact is we have the equivalent of three Jumbo Jet loads of legal refugees entering Australia each week. I believe you ought to celebrate their entry rather than focus all your energy on illegal entrants that get left wing Media attention.
Posted by Philo, Monday, 4 September 2006 8:07:04 PM
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Being of non-English speaking background and having been the victim of stereotyping and rascist and ignorant remaks throughout my life, I am pleased that a commentator is brave enough to say what many people of non-English speaking background feel but are afraid to say in this climate, about government policy and where it is taking us.
On the issue of citizensip testing:-
Anyone who believes that citizenship tests will promote integration knows little about the experience and feelings of the typical migrant experience. It also assumes that all current Australian citizenship holders are and have always been respectful.

Yet, the number of migrants who have had to change their names to make them more Anglo-celtic (in order to disguise their background and avoid stereotypes and assumptions about them, for the purposes of gaining employment etc) in itself is a marker of a failure of policy makers to understand that respect cuts both ways.

I do not see commensurate education programs in schools (such as civics education) to encourage ALL Australian citizens to be more tolerant and respectful generally. It seems as if in the end, multiculturalism and diversity in Australia will only be represented on food menus.

The proposal of a citizenship test is fraught with highly problematic assumptions and does nothing to deal with the problem of tolerance and respect in a more substantive, meaningful sense and at a societal-wide level.
Posted by lia, Monday, 18 September 2006 1:38:15 PM
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yes i agree. australia is indeed racist and needs to be dealt with proper.
Posted by nicksinif, Sunday, 1 October 2006 2:42:49 AM
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yes i agree. australia is indeed racist and needs to be dealt with proper. something i dont get though is. why did they elect a chinese man to be mayor of melbourne?
Posted by nicksinif, Sunday, 1 October 2006 2:43:48 AM
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Strength to you all for your courage to speak so clearly on this recent issue of "citizenship" and having the innovation to choose this particular article to place your comments.

I totally agree with you lia;

"Anyone who believes that citizenship tests will promote integration knows little about the experience and feelings of the typical migrant experience. It also assumes that all current Australian citizenship holders are and have always been respectful." THANK YOU and,

"It seems as if in the end, multiculturalism and diversity in Australia will only be represented on food menus."

I appreciated this reflection, how true, and so creatively put.

If only we could stop this narrow minded and extremely horrid kind backwardness!

SHINE ON

www.miacat.com
Posted by miacat, Saturday, 7 October 2006 12:06:21 AM
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Yikes this guy is living in a fantasy world. He is waiting for Australia to become a rainbow of multicultural bliss? Good luck Mr, such a practical application does not exist anywhere, not here, not New Zealand, Europe, Asian, the Middle East, Africa or North and South America. Nowhere. But I think its cute that you have a dream.
Posted by MissCampania, Friday, 10 August 2007 11:51:10 PM
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