Alan wrote….” Heck, even wikipedia admits that the 'dark ages' was a propaganda campaign and mentions the inventions that Stark claims were made in the period. A little research is all that is needed to find that you are wrong, even without going into the depth that Stark goes into in his book.”

Firstly if you read the “Discussion” section of the Dark Ages Wiki entry you will see that there are some questions about the validity of the opening paragraphs of that entry ie: Christian Apologetics/anti-humanists.

You dick I used the Wiki to get and check the dates already you check it for yourself. Just to be sure you got it. Dark Ages = 476-1000CE those inventions etc fall outside the time or are not related as they came from Asia. PERIOD!!

And I was not being selective I ran out of room. (350word limit) I would have thought someone with common sense would realized the errors of his (Stark) statement.

About clock your comment ok I missed out on what

- Double-entry book keeping try- 1200-1300’s

http://www.franzarlinghaus.de/Bookkeeping.html

http://www.canhamrogers.com/HDEB.htm

http://www.ivcc.edu/steljes/GeneralPages/Links/accounting_history_in_a_nutshell.htm

- The chimney… How vague is that? 1300’s Northern Europe

Check out Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimney

Google and you can find more outside Dark Ages date.

The pump. Well he has to be more specific there. But did you ever hear a about a guy called Archimedes?

Whats left? The waterwheel. From now on let the Dark Ages be know as the Age of Waterwheels!

Also you have a pro-Christian group interviewing an author with pro-Christian views without a balance to the interview. Hmmm sounds pro-Christian propaganda to me?

Stark is wrong and using propaganda.

Now are we clear? Have a nice day.

PS.

In relation to Stark’s statement in the article..” Allah was not conceived of as creator of a universe governed by "natural" rules, in contrast with the prevailing Christian conception of Jehovah as the Great Clockmaker.” Referring to different between scientific development in societies embracing Islam or Christianity during the dark ages. He is wrong the concept of God the great clockmaker deals with Galileo, Kepler & Newton.

I think it is a pity that the debate over Intelligent Design has become a debate about the God reflected in the Christian Scriptures. The other pity is that Evolution is presented often in public discourse as a fact rather than a theory. As science it reflects a faith e.g anything other than a naturalistic explanation of the origins and existence of life is unthinkable (I think I'm paraphrasing Richard Dawkins here.)It reflects a worldview whose epistemology is rooted in 'natural' experience rather than 'supernatural'. There should be greater debate, I believe, about the scientific aspects of evolution rather than the normal to-do between the fundamentalist evolutionists and the fundamentalist Christians as the foundations of belief are quite different. It is customary for the evolutionists to take the high ground (fundamentalist posture) when they are no more entitled to do so than anyone else. Also, intelligent design has been hypothesised due to the scientific evidence that life has design inbuilt. This does not mean ah! it must be God, and it must be 'our' God.
There are also many people in academic circles who have built careers and reputations around evolution, not to mention positions of influence, and these will be defended vigorously.
It seems to me, to state my position, that evolution as an explanation of the diversity, complexity, order and mystery of life oversteps itself by far. But the faith must be defended as the (apparent or posited) alternative is unthinkable.

Alchemist,
I am convinced now that you actually believe in the violent superstition spirit world that primitive culturtes have survived in for thousands of years.
You Posted Sunday 8th "The religious have virtually wiped out the indigenous races of the world, no one else. Cultures that survived for many thousands of years in harmony with nature, have been destroyed by your moronic beliefs. Name one country or race that hasn't suffered at the hands of god religions."

So these primitive superstitious cultures that are held in fear of demons are acceptable in your eyes while New World monotheistic religions are evil. Now we are beginning to see multiple spirits, the superstitions and beliefs you hold as essential to living in this Earth. So you are really polytheistic at heart and deny the monotheistic and unified view of the Universe. That's Ok, that is your choice. Please don't read Aristotle to them as it will destroy their world view, and you will be doing the same to them as you try to do to the New World religions. Western education is a terrible scourge for these people, please do not try to educate them, otherwise they will become like the rest of us.

Link worth reading.

http://www.summit.org/resource/tc/archive/0106/

Jeshua

"Scientific evidence can be compiled to support one model of earth history as compared to another, but such work amounts to a feasibility study, not proof."

Jeremy L Walter (Ph.D)

Serg,

Question:

So Galileo, Kepler & Newton were all atheists not young-Earth Creationists?

Harvard Paleantologist Dr Richard Lewontin said: (Thanx Jeshua, good link)

[“We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to Materialism [naturalism]. Materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door”]

and so, we have a glimpse of honesty, a ray of intellectual confession... but sadly, this admission seems not to impact on the many ‘followers’ of the naturalistic view, they continue, headlong on, with glazed eyes of denial, blindly thinking they are simply being ‘objective’.

How easy, how convenient it would be to turn our minds around to this manner of thinking. How many doors to unspeakable hedonistic licence and pleasure it would open up, how free we would be, to follow our carnal impulses, to explore all the sensuality that the human form can experience........only to find that it was only the ‘screensaver’ and the reality behind this glamorous and tantalizing portrayal, is a virus, a way that is wide, a path that is easy...and leads to eternal destruction. The hard-drive of our soul is totally re-formatted.

Yet that path is attractive, and remains the single biggest barrier to humble acceptance of the Lordship of Christ. “I stand at the door knocking, if any man will open.... I will come in, and dine with him” Said the glorified Jesus.

I hope none of us who choose the wide path will not complain that He did not break the door down when we face Him.

Serg... I think its a waste of time to try to show either for or against a religious tradition by counting the ‘score’ of various cultural contributions. Stick to your sketch writing skills.
There is a knock on your door I believe......