Sydney_sergei, none of those Bible passages explicitly say that the world is flat. Underlying any assumption that "four corners [of the earth]" equates with flatness is that flat surfaces must have four corners! Even if at first reading you expect to literally find four corners it is quite feasible to have a curved surface having corners. But the purpose of those passages is not to assert that the earth has corners or even four of them. Rather it is to show that the hope of the Jewish nation, a descendant of the family of Jesse (ie. the father of King David) would one day restore Israel and become a sign for all nations (Is. 11:10). The "four corners" are the primary directions from which any direction can be derived and those "four corners" belonging to the earth are those from which any nation in the world can be found.

YngNLuvnIt, you state about cell division.
"I just had this discussion with a TOP cell biologist who admitted that still nobody knows how this happens."

Do a google search on Mitosis and you will see 1,890,000 articles on how it happens.

I have a unique interest in cell division as I have incurable bone marrow cancer. In my case I have a monoclonal B lymphocyte which has a deletion in chromosome 13 at 1.4. This causes an increase in a protein called Bcl-2 which signals the cell to divide (mitosis). This protein also prevents apoptosis (programmed cell death). This defect is genetic, my mother also has Chronic Lymphocytic Leukaemia.

I can only believe that this is caused by an evolutionary flaw, because if it was caused by an intelligent designer then he,she,it needs to go back to design school.

A year 9 biology student can tell you that if you pour a super saline solution on a cell in vitro it will divide.

I have no problem with you believing whatever you wish, but psuedo-science driven by religious dogma has no place in our schools except maybe in religious instruction lessons. Not in science classrooms.

Just as a matter of interest are you a "young earth" or "old earth" creationist? Didn't Bellerophon kill the chimera with the help of the Greek Gods - Poor monotremes another example of evolution.

"I can only believe that this is caused by an evolutionary flaw, because if it was caused by an intelligent designer then he,she,it needs to go back to design school."

I'm sorry to hear that you have Leukaemia, Steve. But I wish to suggest that you could apply your view of God when considering why there is death or any kind of suffering in the world. What went wrong that we - all of us - at some time will have to face death? Because even if you are able to cure every disease there is still death to confront.
The only hope of certainty in death can be found in Jesus who, if the New Testament is to be trusted, has overcome it by his resurrection! Jesus promises that if you trust in him you will have eternal peace in heaven where there is no more death, disease or suffering at all. (Rev. 21:04). Aside from this, what hope is there?

Yep..Steve,

I recall my mum,had breast cancer.

Crusader and all of us mean the best, and we speak out of a heart conviction. I hope that you will not take anything we say as anything other than well meaning and spoken in love.

When confronted with the reality of death, (and a mate of mine is in the final stages of an aggressive and inoperable brain tumor)... I am truly encouraged by Christs words

"I am the resurrection and the life, he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live"

Please remember those words in the quietness of your own heart and mind as time goes by. I Pray they will have more meaning than now.

I also had a lot of accumulated 'myth' and intellectual clutter about Genesis when I first gave my life to Christ, but in all honesty, as I came to grips with the text, and of growing in Christ, I found my doubts or questions dissappear. Young Earth, Old earth... yes, its a debate. But.. "Hittites".. no such people (Only Genesis mentioned them) then.. voila.. discovery of Hittites by archeologists.

Sodom and Gomorrah.. 'how could that have happened' ? Then, William Albright and others found the 'cities of the plains' with feet of Ash and many evidences of 'firey destruction' and so it goes on. Gen 10, the table of the nations.. nothing like it in the world.

I cannot deny the one who did heal me, miraculously, in the 'blink' of an eye. I know the feeling and it is indeed a rush. I learned then, the truth of Pauls words "so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power."

Even in Pauls day, he was himself allowed to suffer, he did question it, but knew it was from God, and Paul had been used to heal others.

Keep well under the circumstances. Don't close off at an intellectual level mate. When we receive the kingdom with the faith of a child, we enter it. (not in a 'childish' way, but child like)

Crusader and David

Don’t feel sorry for me. I have had a wonderful life albeit a little shorter than I had anticipated. This may be an example of our different belief systems. I appreciate and respect your choice to believe in God but after much soul searching and contemplating my own mortality it is something I cannot do. I do believe in an inherent “goodness” in all people. Yes there are “evil” people but I believe they are sick and need our help and compassion.

I am at peace with myself knowing I have never intentionally hurt anyone and that my close friends and family love me. I suppose I have lead a “Christian” life without a belief in God.

My belief system requires no reward for my actions, and that I will find peace before I die. Nothing went wrong in the fact we all die it is a consequence of birth. When I die in 4-5 years I expect nothing. I will be returned to the elements that made and nourished me for 50+ years and I am glad I was lucky to live for that long.
To return to the point of this thread we all believe different things but none of us has the right to force our opinions on others. We can argue, cajole and intellectualise our opinions, in scientific usage; a theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it does in other contexts. Neither is a scientific theory a fact. Scientific theories are never proven to be true, but can be disproven. All scientific understanding takes the form of hypotheses, theories, or laws.
Until creationism and ID have achieved the status of a scientific theory I will continue to deny their right to be taught as science. This may take another 140 years and I will be long gone.
If you would like to continue this discussion email me bimini2@bigpond.net.au I would like to hear your views without the 2 post limit.

Yngun, I am not amazed that scientific types, people who understand evolution theory etc, give you short shrift, when you question them.
At the end of the day, it is up to you to educate yourself and there is a mountain of knowledge out there. Every university that matters in the world, accepts evolution theory as the basis for biology.
Even the Catholic Church accepts it these days, once informed, they realised that the evidence was overwhelming.

Yup its far more complicated then "God did it". I guess eventually
people simply can't be bothered to argue with what they would describe as yet another ignorant fundie. Why waste their time?

If you want to inform yourself, Richard Dawkins has written alot
of books, explaining the many questions that you have in laymans terms, so that even you can understand them. You can borrow them
from the libarary or buy them, its up to you.

Sorry to put it kind of bluntly, but smart types would kind of get
pissed off when yet another dreamer comes along...