Thanks Swilkie,

You seem to be a reasonable person - I will try to reason with you.

Ounce upon a time when banks used to count bundles of paper money manually, the tellers were never shown a counterfeit note during their initial training; they were simply told to know and familiarise themselves with the real thing. They could always detect a fake note because it felt different than the real thing.

It is the same with spiritual and religious matters.

If God is true and the bible is true - then Allah and the Qur'an must be untrue. And visa versa.

I have read the Qur’an in Arabic and translations.

The two accounts are not compatible; like cheeses and chalk, or water and oil. There are similarities, nuances, but like the fake note it will always be detected by the trained and the watchful.

I have lived with muslims long enough to know that they are nice dissent hospitable people who are unfortunately trapped in a religious system that does not offer any hope.

Eternal life can only be granted by the Son of God. Not by good works, not by jihad.

To be a nice person is no guarantee of heaven. The only way in is through Jesus.

So can you understand my position? I love people dearly – including muslims – and I don’t want them to perish because no one took the time to tell them the truth.

El-salamu-aleikum.

Bosk, no untruth at all, as you claim. I am simply better informed :)
Read what Tanweer Ahmed wrote on this forum about this very question.
Or the following article in the Australian.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17559932%5E28737,00.html

Clearly its not about just a few naughty boys, its more complex then that and its been going on for a long time.

The point is that Bromwyn was claiming it is Australia's fault.
Rubbish. She claims its just fear. Thats simplistic. We are complex creatures and yup we are tribal by nature. Think about it, we will care more if the lady down the street is assaulted, then if we read in the paper that say 30 people died in floods in say Upper Mongolia. We care more about those close to us and less then those different from us, thats not fear its just basic human instinct.

Yes we will show streaks of tribalism, but in general we will also be fairly pleasant to others who are fairly pleasant too. Most migrants have no problem adapting to Australia, most thrive.

If the NSW police had ignored the PC brigade and clamped down on
Lebanese gangs years ago, we would most likely not have the problems that we have now.

Arjay
What can I reply. I replied poltely & was merely added to the list of people you HATE & so the list grows. I'm sorry but your & Fredericks ethnic clensing is not the answer. Hate & all that comes with it is always evil.
Coach & Benjamin
Concider this
"Blessed is he who grabs the babe from its mothers arms & dashes its head upon the stones." Koran? Nope Bible [Psalms].
Look at the Crusades where the pope told his fellow christians "It is less wicked by far to slaughter muslims than to kill your fellow christians" Caused by the Koran? Nope by their dedication to HATE & their love of Christ.
But perhaps you don't consider Catholics Christians. How about a bible believing protestant like Cotton Matther who told his followers "We must kill these godless savages [the american indians] so that their land may be inherited by God's people"
Then there are the Salem witch trials & the Inquisition. In fact Christian history seems particularly bloody. All these events were justified by quotes from the bible which has God commanding genocide & blessing infanticide. If all you say about the Koran is true then they are quite alike.
Now you will say "ah but those people didn't understand the bible, I do. But how to prove it? Both can quote scripture to support their views, both claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit."
In fact in order to credibly claim that you understand an ancient text like the Koran or the bible it is necessary to be able to not only read it in its original tongue, but also understand its historical context, the personal history of its author, the art & literature of its culture & so on. Know all that do either of you? Quite frankly I don't think you know that about the Koran or Scripture. But just one question before I go.
What if you're wrong? What if you don't know the truth? Perhaps a little less dogmatism is called for? Just a thought. Neither of you need reply.

The problem is that all of the more recent arrivals, post multiculturalism, cannot feel at home here until we have a debate on our national identity.

They support multiculturalism only here, but not in their "homelands", because of an alienation with the flag.

They support a republic for this reason too. Andrew Yu, with his anti-One Nation Party party, said it is time we move on to embrace our diversity, because HE cannot identify with the place.

Ethnic "minorities" come across as pro-transformation, but really only the host is forced to transform, the minority remains an ultra-conservative centripetal tendency to be fixed.

We ALL need to be transformative, else strife is nigh.

Bosk.You presume too much.I don't hate, it destroys the individual.The thugs do enough of that.I never want to awoken again by a phone call with my son pleading for help,trying to escape from these thugs.

I want to see change whereby individuals take responsibility for their actions without lame excuses from socialist ideology.Previous to this,the PC brigade denied there was a real crime problem with Middle Eastern Crime.Now they are saying that back in the eighties there weren't enough jobs for them.Guess who ran the economy back then? Yes, the PC Labor Govt.Well the Chinese and Vietnamese who also suffered from war, are never short of work.Why aren't they burdened with these afflictions?

Coach,

The Quran confirms the Bible and the Torah and its contents, it also confirms Muslims are followers of the Mosaic law and jesus. Allah is the Arabic word for God and we prefer to use it because it is : a) neither male or female b) have no plural. It is the name for God in the Arabic Bible as well.

The Quran story board is different in the following areas:

- The Israelites were the chosen people to deliver the message of Unity and commandments to the world. There were Ishmaelites prophets as well.
- When they deviated, Jesus was sent to correct their path and teach them spirituality of the commandments.
- When they rejected Jesus, God asked him to preach to the non-Israelites.
- After Jesus persecution, the followers of Jesus adopted the Trinity.
- Mohamed (PBUH) was sent to correct and reconfirm the commandments.

That’s our version of the truth.

Benjamin,

Minor correction: The only sect I know of in Islam who teaches Kafir=Infidel is wahhabi.However, Kafir does not mean infidel and the word means a spectrum of things the usual is a ‘non-believer’ or ‘ungrateful’ (used when talking about people of the book).

The meaning definition of “Infidel” in the Quran is an aggressor, an invader, an occupier, etc.. (ie action related and not religion related).