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The Forum > Article Comments > The twin failures of multiculturalism and integration > Comments

The twin failures of multiculturalism and integration : Comments

By Con George-Kotzabasis, published 9/12/2005

Con George-Kotzabasis argues Australian Muslims must be willing to cast off anything incompatible with Western culture.

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Sneekeepete: There are plenty of excuses, but no justification for curtailing freedom of speech in a democracy. Why should we cursorily dump the Voltairian tradition simply to pacify people whose demands escalate with every effort to please them? I disagree that racial vilification laws were intended to protect Asians. I don't know any Asians who thought they needed protecting, but my view would be the same anyway. Funny coincidence that Sharon's attacks on refugee camps in Southern Lebanon happened in 1982, Lebanese Muslims began arriving soon after and by the end of the decade(the time it might take to twist a few arms and stack a few branches),free speech had been canned.

Democracy demands maturity. Those whose skins are so thin they want nanny-State to stop people being nasty, need to grow up. Having said this,there is no excuse for words which incite hatred or violence and cause fear, which amounts to assault. We already had adequate assault laws, but some very precious people insisted on special laws, perhaps for those to whom they were indebted? Special legislation for any group is a marker of authoritarian societies and the silence from Leftish academe was deafening. Why?

Funny how those who scream loudest against John Howard's laws banning speech inciting terrorism, see nothing wrong with pre-Howard laws banning speech which might merely offend or insult people. Tragic for Australia.

In my view you can trace the emergence of (unusual) Australian antagonism to immigrants directly to the perception that people were being gagged to stop them objecting to an immigration policy they didn't want and about which they were never asked. D2.
Posted by D2, Friday, 16 December 2005 9:05:59 PM
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FH,

”I really don’t understand what you are trying to say. When I commented that terrorists target Muslims you strongly disagreed, then you sent me a link to this article about civil war in Algeria which confirms my view and proves you wrong!. Please explain!

http://www.onwar.com/aced/chrono/c1900s/yr90/falgeria1992.htm

To explain, I was having a go at you over misinformation, unproven and unprovable claims of war atrocities.

“FH: Not in Australia, but Bosnia 1996, Orthodox Christians (Lead by an Orthodox Priest) killed 8,000 Muslim women and children, cut off two fingers of each hand (babies were not spared) so they meet Jesus with “Trinity” fingers. I have not seen any condemnation and the Pope said : “we are all Christians”, should I assume he included those criminals as well?”
Posted by Fellow_Human, Tuesday, 22 November 2005 4:16:49 PM
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=3860

I read the links FH provided, at Mr.P.Pigs request for validation:
http://www3.cnn.com/WORLD/Bosnia/updates/9602/07/
http://www.un.org/icty/indictment/english/der-ii020703e.htm
http://www.irct.net/torture_journal/Torture-2.pdf
There are NO 8000 fingerless victims! There were 3000 victims who kept their fingers… The atrocities in the link are in 1992 not 96 as FH claims.
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=3856

If you can’t understand the problem with the above after all this time then sadly there is no hope for your honour or credibility.

I disagreed muslims kill muslims? No I didn’t. … I know muslims kill almost everyone.

As I said here:
” FH,
I posted the link, I know muslims kill muslims, x-muslims and non-muslims, and the whole lot sucks.
Posted by meredith, Monday, 5 December 2005 3:20:12 PM
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=3856

A reminder yet again to check your sources before you post …

Anyway I’ve had enough of this babble, I feel you and I have made my point over and over very well thank you for your display of muslim moderate behaviour.
Posted by meredith, Sunday, 18 December 2005 4:04:19 PM
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Meredith (s),

In the previous discussion you were referring to (which was almost a month ago now), I was giving an example that atrocities were committed in the name of other religions including recently by some who follow the Christian faith.

1. There was 8,000 Muslims murdered for no reason but being muslims:

http://deseretnews.com/dn/print/1,1442,600147511,00.html
http://english.epochtimes.com/news/5-7-11/30214.html
http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2002-10/21/article26.shtml
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-07/12/content_459420.htm

2. Their bodies were mutilated:
Here is a link to an article by Grace Halsell who served as a speech writer in the White House for President Johnson.
http://muslimsonline.com/babri/halsell1.htm
here is another article that talks about missing noses and ears:
http://www.haverford.edu/relg/sells/reports/2nd.html

3. The murderers were blessed by a senior Orthodox priest (ie in service priest and not an outcast or rebel). Only after the video tape was revealed on 12th June 05 that the Orthodox Church condemned the killings (10 years later).

http://www.witness.org/forum/index.php/topic,85.0.html

4. To-date I did not see a comment from the pope rejecting the Orthodox Church massacre, on the contrary, I see his comments calling for ‘unity’ with the very same sect.

5. I do accept that murderers have nothing to do with religion and to be fair, I am not expecting him or other followers of the Christian faith to apologise for atrocities. My question was to why do you expect Muslims to be apologetic?

Why are you in denial about above facts? Or is it you were taught to believe that atrocities happens exclusively by Muslims?
Posted by Fellow_Human, Sunday, 18 December 2005 6:35:26 PM
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F.H.

I accept the reality of the massacre per se... 8000 approx, but mostly men and boys. (we saw the women/children being separated from the men on TV) I just can't find the reference in any of those links to the 'fingers cut off'... can you be more specific ?

I remind you of the Book of Jihad which includes the "Permissability for killing women and chilren during night raids as long as it is not deliberate" Book 019, Number 4321

So, its a bit rich to apply a standard of behavior during war to the Serbs, which is actually part of Islamic teaching anyway, yet condemn the Serbs for in reality acting as 'obedient muslims'. It was war, they killed mostly the men at Srebreniza, as per Islamic teaching on Jihad.
But I cannot find any justification at all in the New Testament (the fulfillment of the Old) for such actions, so I can describe it as 'un'Christian easily, though not 'un-Islamic'

...and the circle continues :)

Anyway,..can you give chapter and verse for the fingers cut off bit ?
Thanx
Have a nice Christmas.

p.s. Don't go to Cronulla for a few weeks.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Sunday, 18 December 2005 8:15:18 PM
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Fellow Human,

The last post of yours above bought it all back to me, I have heard this stuff before.

From the vaults:

"I have detailed information about the situation . . . which completely proves that what they allege are illusions . . . They lie every day."

And this one seems particularly apt:

"We have destroyed 50 tanks today. That 5-ohhh tanks" [while holding up his fingers]"

My personal favourite:

"They think we are retarded - they are retarded."

All quotes immortalised by Baghdad Bob, the Iraqi Information Minister. Did you do a stint there during you extensive and sensitive overseas postings by any chance?

For anyone else interested in some amusing bald faced lies.

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/
Posted by Mr.P.Pig, Sunday, 18 December 2005 9:04:24 PM
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MPP,

So anything you don't like or don't want to believe is a "lie".
"The truth" and "credible" news is only what confirms your views of the world.

Why can't you just explain your opinions while respecting that other people see truth in something else?
Posted by Fellow_Human, Monday, 19 December 2005 8:19:32 AM
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