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The Forum > Article Comments > The twin failures of multiculturalism and integration > Comments

The twin failures of multiculturalism and integration : Comments

By Con George-Kotzabasis, published 9/12/2005

Con George-Kotzabasis argues Australian Muslims must be willing to cast off anything incompatible with Western culture.

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Dear Con,

I am sorry, but you opinion piece cannot be taken seriously by any person with a conscientious interest in the facts.

Your assertion that the majority of Muslims think that Osama bin Laden is a good man is not only inflammatory and unnecessary, it lacks any support in any polling.

The further assrtions you make about terrorism having the tacit support of the silent majority of Muslims in Australia is not only inflammatory, but I minagine quite offensive to Muslims.

Your opinions on this issue lack any value because you have no evidence to support them. Could you pleasue ensure that your opinions on this topic are supported by facts and cogent analysis.

Thank you
Posted by The Skeptic, Friday, 9 December 2005 9:50:57 AM
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"The rickety and artificial nature of multiculturalism, and the realisation even among its unflappable advocates - which reveals clearly their own diffidence in the viability of multiculturalism - that it needs legislative measures to make it workable. That is, you would have to force people to accept it by the enactment of laws".

iLOVE it. Great article.
Posted by davo, Friday, 9 December 2005 9:53:46 AM
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I agree with the first post, but the end of the day, the world is a pie, and a religion must encroach on another religion in order to grow the faith.

Therefore if the faith grows, it is at the expense of another.

That is why religion is the mark of an early civilization, i just hope we survive through it until relgion is no longer a component in the masses life. We can subscribe to more neutral, positive set of beliefs and we can work together as a planet on creation, rather than impeed it by secular beliefs.
Posted by Realist, Friday, 9 December 2005 9:58:32 AM
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I would be keen to know how many "many" are, when it comes to the dutch recruitng body gaurds to go down to the shops and buy their loaves of bread and copies of the Daily Clog.

I do not know how many tihnk Osama is a good man or not; but any one harboring the view the invasin of Afghanistan and Iraq is an example of american colonialism and folly I would count as a fellow traveller.

The evidence is overwhelming that these acts are ones of revenge, based on lies and innordinate fear - global terorrism be damned. There is no evidence to support the existence of a highly integrated network of terrorist; more over their is a random scattering of disaffected nutters who with the trappings of Isalm commit horrible crimes: few if any of the hundreds arrested under laws against terro have been charged with anything at all.

Con can point to as many flash points of cultural clashes as he likes - the same phenomenon exits in relatively homogeneous communities - it gains expression in crime, violence and all manner of dysfunctional relationships; if he wants over riding harmony and peace he will not find it in the human experience.

Mulsims are not alone in declaring indefatigably theirs to be the one true religion - I think it was one of the last pronuncements Pope JP2 said about Catholicism.

And Con can not have it both ways: Islamism with its rigd adherence to its culture and failure to adapt will wither away - at the same time present a clear and present daanger to Western Culture - a position he has adopted elsewhere - which will it be?

The shadows of Islamism at which so many are jumping are new borns when looked at across history; the regressive paranoia of the western leaders that has led to this wide spread panic will causae more harm than good, expose us to more danger than produce safety and foster a self fulfilling prophesy based on its internal fear and prejudice.
Posted by sneekeepete, Friday, 9 December 2005 10:55:27 AM
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I worked in Canberra in the late seventies, where it seemed to me that ABA's (Australian born Australians) were a minority group. I explored the diversity of cultures,worked with people from various ethnic backgrounds and was welcomed at the many different ethnic clubs. It was a steep learning curve for a bloke from the bush but I simply treated everyone I met as an individual and found {shock, horror) that but for minor language problems,'they' were no different to me.'They' had mortgages,paid their bills and taxes and worked hard for 'their' families.
Posted by aspro, Friday, 9 December 2005 11:23:43 AM
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Con,

Good ‘mud throwing piece’. Fundamental flaws in your argument:

- The magic 99.9% assumption: being a Muslim and asking an average Muslims, we don’t believe there is even 10% who could believe in conspiracy theories (including stats from Islamic web portals). Yet, Con quotes 99.9% of Muslims believe in conspiracies.

- Mixing up support & denial: while I accept the sad fact in the Muslims camp that some Muslims and Imams are still in denial about terrorism and believe its all a conspiracy, this is vastly different from the conclusion of sympathy with terrorism. I was in the US early this year and the conspiracy theory is unfortunately believed by many non-Muslims as well.

- The ‘2 wrongs make it right’ approach: again you assume because some Muslims (& non-Muslims) are worried about the sovereignty of Iraq and civilian casualties then they have an agenda of some sort. This assumption is naïve at best.

- On the Theo Van Gogh story: again and again: the way religion is practiced in the Middle East or even Eastern Europe is part of the identity. If TVG made a movie insulting an identity (Serbian Orthodox, Nigerian Catholic or even a US Texan), he would be likely to face the same fate as any of these people are likely to carry a gun if not a machine gun.

- Mixing up theory and practice: multi-cultural-ism like any other good concept is just a concept. When managed and implemented well it can be successful like most immigration countries (US for example).
Posted by Fellow_Human, Friday, 9 December 2005 11:39:06 AM
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