To enjay,

I knew you'd take that tack. I just knew you would. I knew it because I spend some time in virtual combat with those who espouse the very same rhetoric.

Blaming men for female circumcision in African/Asian communities is exactly like blaming men in Western society for the behaviours of modern women. Things like wearing makeup (a very bizarre activity performed by multiple millions of women costing billions of dollars that could be better spent on more humane endeavours, like campaigning to stop female genital mutilation - FGM, that men don't want), owning twenty, thirty pairs of shoes, wearing very expensive sexually explicit clothing, buying millions of magazines about the same, shaving their body hair and getting painful genital waxing and body mutilations such as tattoos, body piercing and scars, as well as highly expensive body modifications and breast implants through plastic surgery.

The fact is that modern Western women do these tragic things to themselves, not to please or suit Western men, we don't care, but to please and suit their own vanity and other women!

Of course it could be argued that this was women being sucked into men's subjugation, but for crikey's sake, get real. Women do these things through personal fears and cultural impositions created by other women - the same as FGM. It has absolutely nothing to do with men and I strongly and respectfully suggest that any spin to accuse men for this behaviour is fanciful and mendacious.

Minuet,

this is true... No protests will come from within the muslim community that last very long. Look at Rushdie, or any other islamic group that tries to include homosexuality or women's equality in Islam itself, they get threatenned and shouted down. What's worst though is that no western groups who espouse human rights and equality ever step up to support any muslims who may be trying to speak out against mistreatment. They are all cowards. The people who do verbally support them are deemed right-wing rednecks and racists.
The muslim culture has yet to have their Luther, because everytime he tries to pop up he gets his head cut off by fanatics and no outside(western) support is forthcomming, which is what is needed if places like Suadi Arabia are ever going to be civilised.

Still nobody has countered my point that Ali is wrong about it being tribal. There are Islamic teachings that explicitly state that women are half the worth of men. The "tribal" elders sentence these innocent women to gang rape using Sharia Provisions in a Sharia court. Why leave this out Ali?

In my opinion most domestic violece is instigated by women,take my wife for instance.Last week my wife was in hospital having an operation on her appendix,as the dutiful husband I went in to visit her.and as I was going out night clubbing that evening I took my good pants and shirt in with me for her to iron.She not only lost her temper with me,she put the creases in the wrong place.Of course she really got upset with me when I asked her if sex was out of the question.In the end she said o/k if I would put the curtain screens around the bed.

She said If I didn't stop acting so selfish she wouldn't lay the pavers,paint the kitchen,or concrete the driveway when she came out of hospital.

Now if all women were like my missus there would be no domestic violence.

YO!

LOL!

MR PHILB, no yet, SIR PHILB, a man with the sense of humour that you have deserves to be Knighted.

A good laugh, many thanks mate.

Hello Maximus

Thanks for the compliment.You will be happy to know that the good wife has recovered from her operation and is back at home.Actually she is outside right now,mixing up a nice load of concrete.We don't have daylight saving here in the West so I hope she finishes the driveway before it gets dark,as I want her to wash the car before she cooks dinner.

Our Docter has told me to take it easy for the next few days because I have been worrying about my wifes recovery.He gave my wife some good pain killers so sex should be o/k for this evening.This of course will be after she runs a nice relaxing bath and washes my back.

I don't want you to thinking I am a male chauvinist pig, as I have been known to open the door for her if both her hands are full of shopping.

As for a knighthood Im sorry mate I am a republican besides, it would mean sending my wife to pick it up.She is far to busy at the moment.

Regards Phill.