Part 2 of 2

A significant proportion of the posters to this thread believe strongly in a concept which I don't believe that there is evidence to support, that of an involved God. In fact I think the evidence comes out fairly strongly against the particular version of the idea of a God espoused by christians and muslims. I can still respect or deplore the manner those posters conduct themselves in these forums despite that view and generally choose to leave their "misguided (jest)" views alone except where they choose to try and insist that I adopt their viewpoint.

What I am concerned about in Australia is the shape of our society. The direction it takes. Will it be one where those who want to be a part of it get a fair chance or will some always be knocked down because a grouping they are part of is out of favour at that time? I want each person to be judged on their merits (or otherwise) not on extreme cases or statistics. I want Scout to be able to cover her head on a train if she wants without abuse and ML to be able to walk around in as little as she likes with the same freedom (or visa versa).

I believe that our best chance to deal with the integration of muslims into the broad community is to empower moderate muslims such as FH and give them all the support we can so that they can then in turn help guide other muslims to an understanding of the bits that make this country great.

I also quite like what I have come to know of FH through his posts. Not the type of "like" Mr P Pig suggests, rather respect and some shared values. FH seems like a thoughful decent guy who is remarkably tolerant in the face of a lot more abuse than I'm confident that I could put up with. Someone I think I would be proud to have as a friend.

R0bert

Fellow_Human,
To reiterate R0bert's post - you have shown nothing but tolerance and patience in the face of continued misrepresentation and denigration. I have come to respect you (as much as one can online) and wish more Christians showed the same kind of character.

If you ever came to Brisbane I would be happy to meet and have you in my home (and I am not fussed if you require particular food. I believe it is a host’s obligation to offer what is suitable and inoffensive to a guest – something the West has forgotten: manners).

Before the guilt card is played, I have no guilt in relation to the West – we can teach the world a lot. But I also recognise that the West can learn more from other parts of the world.

ON TOPIC
It is a simple fact – the more a society marginalises and disenfranchises a community, the more it disconnects from the wider society. This can be seen in Western nations around the world where ethnic communities are dealt with this way.

The subsequent conflicts are not a product of incompatibility. Every society has the same groups of people – just by different names. It is reasonable to believe that Muslims fear terrorist as much as others. Only the fanatical want to blow up others. If those who lump all Muslims in the same boat think this is a lie, ask yourself this: why aren’t they all blowing us up?

Like it or not most Muslims are as average as most middle of the road Christians. Not all Christians are of the fundamental variety – and most would not wish to be. Why is it so hard to see this regarding Muslims?

On the fingers issue. Spend a night reading through UN and independent organisations’ reports concerning Bosnia. The sheer numbers of atrocities was enough to horrify. I believe FH has heard a story through what he considers authoritive channels. But facts aren’t important when you read the wider picture. Go have a look and tell me Christians are any more civilised than Muslims.

Oh yes.... I'm back!

Reason welcome back you have been greatly missed.

R0bert - I think you are too humble, you have tolerated alot from those whose agenda is discrediting all Muslims.

F-H - you continue to inform with restraint, reason, humour and passion, like R0bert I feel I have come to know you (a little) as much as is possible in these posts.

What is wonderful is that many of the posts here indicate that it is possible to live and let live.

Meredith - I understand that you may have suffered however, you cannot condemn millions of ordinary Muslims for the behaviour of extremists who distort their religion and use it for their own gain.

Mr P. Pig, Kactuz, Philo and the rest; I feel quite confident in saying that the majority of Australians do not want rule by any particular religion, this means you do not have to fear an Islamic takeover but also, will have accept that not everyone believes in your religion nor wants it dictating to us either.

I will keep on saying this: there is good and bad in all people. My work in housing and immigration has shown me that there is more good than bad - more people who desire nothing more than to live in peace. That there are more of the 'right' kind of Muslims, Christians, Buddhists etc and people like me.

Into the world of terror he came.
He loved his enemies.
He acknowledged the traditions of others (while not agreeing with them).
He welcomed people, as people.
He endured hostility, and more.
While were were still enemies, he reconciled us.
And... he put an end to all religion. ["hooray".]
He took the terror out of death.
He established a secure Future.
He poured out the same Spirit on all nations.
The times of ignorance he overlooked.
He called us to change that pessimistic mindset, and follow him.
He said it would all be rather messy, like this, or worse.
And he said, 'Be of good cheer!'

Personally, I like the tight jeans and the exposed hair.

Alchemist,

I am thrilled to have a rapport with you finally, especially answering the question you never asked (still trying to figure that one out :-) )

Why did you assume that Muslims want religious governance/government? In fact, I know a lot more diligent practicing Muslims in Australia (and elsewhere) who can’t vote anything else but Liberals and life without Mr Howard is worse than life without Sheikh Hilali.

Reason,

Great to have you back, thanks for your kindness I would like to see you too when I am in Brisbane next.

Robert,

Thank you, I will be happy to have you as a friend.

Scout,

I can only be grateful to people like Boaz, Philo and Kaktuz otherwise we couldn’t have a chance to meet and know Scout (aka Trinity the Matrix:-)).