Meredith, we also have a choice between a secular society and a xtian one and I prefer a secular society, where religion is simply a lifestyle choice, no matter what you believe. I don't like Xtian tyranny, nor Muslim tyranny. Neither Xtianity nor Islam are tolerant and tolerance is what we need for everyone to get on. So I am becoming intolerant of the intolerant.

Yabby

Yes i know but the xtian fundies are growing in number as are the muslim fundies. Australia is pretty non-religious which is really great. I'm saying if i have to choose my country under a religious influence, I'd choose the xtians. Terror wise the worst they have done in years is egg us for abortions, maybe one or 2 dead doctors, its a pain in the ass but less a pain in the ass than the islamist terror.

I beleive we should not tolerate blindly.

Meredith,

The atrocity mentioned above is probably the UN fantasy and not mine. Please email Mr Anan and while you are at it, please also confirm with him if there is a war in Iraq, you never know with this stuff that happens overseas, maybe the whole thing is just a fantasy and Sadam is still there.

Although you keep coming up with weird logic (or lack of) but, for the sake of decent audience on this forum here is one last attempt:

The apostate cases, as far as I know is enforceable in Saudi Arabia (and maybe parts of Iran). As mentioned earlier, the apostate judgement came later on in Islamic politics and the Quran states that belief is a matter of choice.

I lived in Egypt and have seen people converting into and from every religion possible. If you google communism/ Marxism you will find established parties in most North African (namely muslim countries) since 1922. Egypt had a communist regime under Nasser late 50s and early 60s.

As my comments re fatwas all I said that you exaggerate its significance:
There are lots of fatwas for not smoking and most Muslims I know smoke. The fatwa means a mere opinion of a religious person and not compulsory to anyone. If it was, why is Salam Rushdie is alive until today?

As for you last posting ‘Xtian fundies are better than Islamist fundies’. They are both as Evil. Islamist fundies want the world to become like them, Xtian fundies stockpiling nukes for Armageddon, ignoring global warming cos Jesus gonna take care of it. No Sir, not me…secularism, secularism, keep you reli at home and no state funded reli institution if you ask me.

Fellow Human, finally you have answered my unasked question. It is rare for any deeply religious to admit that a secular society is the current best practise.

What some forget is that the christians also use economic nmeans to gain control. The most powerful companies in the world are all controlled by the christian/judism alliance. Their fear is that they will lose that, if they lose control of the major oil reserves.

I shall take what you say with more respect from now on and accept that when discussing religion, your opinions relate to your personal approach and not what you require of others.

So I understand that Muslims like you would be fearful of terror, no matter from what quarter it comes.

merideth, firstly my apologies for the offence my post appears to have caused you. I did phrase it poorly, the comment was intended to be about my general frustration with the overall level of attack on this and other threads rather than a personal reflection. I try fairly hard to avoid handing out insults in my posts, this time I got it wrong and I'm sorry.

What I am saying in regard to the alleged attrocity is that I am not convinced either way. I'm not saying there is no evidence, just that I have not devoted sufficient interest and effort to that particular topic to form a reasonable opinion. Proof is often about the likelyhood of something being true. I am aware that some very evil stuff was done to muslims in Bosnia in the mid 90's, and that I could easily have missed coverage of that attrocity - it would be much less likely that I would miss news of a major attrocity in Sydney. I'm also aware that I have read articles in the past which I have not kept originals of and would have a hard time proving. To expand on what I said to Mr P Pig read agnostic not athiest or believer.

Proof is not a trivial concept in the Australian context, the reality of this particular incident is. Horrible if it happened but the world has enough attrocities that it is one among many.

pt 1 of 2

R0bert

FH on the stand that you take, I wish more xtian people would say the same, only that way will be ever achieve some kind of harmony
on this planet. Keep religion as a lifestyle choice, no more.

Meredith, see the bright side Going back in history, the Catholics would have had us burned at the stake as heretics, so things are looking up :) Their Jesus loves you story only came later on...

I think that there is actually some hope in the Muslim world too,
they are just behind us in some respects, but will eventually catch up. I saw an article once, regarding the % of Iranians who actually attend the mosque regularly. It was less then 30%. So in every country we seem to have the devoutly religious and fanatical, then a spread right down to the secular. Even in Israel, its a constant
secular versus orthodox battle and IMHO its not the secular types who are being unreasonable.

Perhaps its just religious fanaticism of any kind that is dangerous, as emotion overtakes any ability to reason.