Meredith

Thank you for your post. Your quote from Sir Winston Churchill is not only timely, but also relevant.

I have heaps of ideas to propose. I guess this one really captures it all. This is what studyislam.com has to say about the "guts" of it's religion, faith and followers:

" The name of this relgion is Islam, the root of which, Silim or Salam, means peace. ... The word however, means more than just "peace". It means submission to the One God, as well as to live in harmony with other people and with the environment ...".

Wow! I love the line about living in harmony!

Cheers
Kay

Hi Rainer

i was making the point that islam stil has not made the leap to seperating law n religion ....but more i am thinking on Winston having the guts to speak out, when all anyone wanted in back in those days was peace after ww1...... Locks law n religion was an afterthought in my post..... but, i am thinking it explains partly why islam is so problematic in western civilized society ....... also Lock wasnt keen on islam either, realising probably that it is incapable of that leap.

Xtians and muslims (and john lock as you say)also athiests.. may may rant on about nature over war ..... to me personally that is selfish idealism, sadly this "peaceful nature" is not human nature,its just an idea or concept beyond our mass reach...it is selfish to push a unatianble concept on a species.. natural life is actully war like anyway, humans are war like, as in we tend to protect our own.

As far as it been relevent to Austrailia, well i dont know, (your very wordy there and i dont know what you meaning almost...sorry) , but yes i think all ideas and actions are relvent to western civilisation and culture.... ie we stopped burning witches and islam still chops n hacks hands and heads... basically law n religion was my comment there re John Locke.

i worry about issues like the courtcase in Victoria, where 2 preachers were charged with religious vilification agaisnt islam ... all thay actully did in their sermon was quote the Koran.....surely laws against rioting and violence in general should cover this... this is threating the right to free speech!!The rigth of reply in debate should be kept alive not squashed...... this is multiculture gone wrong or... maybe not able to work in the first place, well maybe not with islam.

Hi kalweb,

yup... one god or we kill you.... the deal islam proposes to countries it colonizes is "peace" islamic style..

sorry for the sloppy spelling
best wishes

Newflash: Middle-eastern male stabbed to death by group of Asian males at Liverpool Westfields.

Newsflash: Three Asian males shot by group of Asian males at Cabramatta Bowling Club.

These events occured yesterday, but they've also occured thousands of times out that way, although the treasonous ABS like to hide statistics on ethnic crime - a form of terrorism in itself really. I now live on the central coast where such things are unheard of (I wonder why?) but lived in Cabramatta/Liverpool for most of my life, up until 2003. I'm now 27yrs, so I grew up in the heart of the experiment, and from my end it failed dismally. 350 words won't be enough time to describe the racism one suffers out there if you happen to be a minority like I am (white male), but suffice it to say this letter I sent the Daily Telegraph will show a little of what it's like....

The murder of the young middle-eastern man outside Liverpool Westfields would hardly be a suprise to those who live in the surrounding area. As someone who lived in Liverpool for seven years, going to the local Westfields was a nightmare, with one regularly being intimidated by middle-eastern thugs. Being a young white male, I was often racially abused by these thugs, although young women, who the thugs would all run up to asking for sex, offering their numbers, sometimes while the girl was with her boyfriend, copped it the most. People who don't live in the western suburbs have no idea about how horrible just going to the shops can be, living side by side with extremely intolerant, ethnocentric people.

Professor Flint's article is spot on, although he surely didn't live out there as I did coming from his set. But as predicted by a range of anthropologists, one wouldn't need to live there to see the failures. Indeed, we see them on the Nightly News each night, and in the papers.

Meredith, you might want to be careful invoking Churchill's enlightened views on race and culture. He also thought Australians were irredeemable - "bad stock".

Poor Professor Flint. He left his most prized bait right there in paragraph four and there were no takers. Very clever. And all of those with the credentials to pick it up were so concerned with their own credentialism, history lessons and brawl to the top of the cultural heap. Amazing. Congratulations Professor. I don't agree with you but have to admire you anyway.

Chainsmoker.. very good point actually.

I've often referred to 'trendy social engineers' and that para pretty well sums up and confirms exactly how so much culture change occurs and also, crucially, how peoples THINKING changes over time.

They don't want to be left out or be seen to be on the fringe of the mainstream of ideas, so all one has to do is convince them or portray a new idea as IF it is mainstream and accepted, and before long the 'original thinking challenged' among us are uttering a new song which they claim is intirely their own.

This happened with the gay agenda, it happened with 'multi-culturalism' and it is NOW happening with the 'pedophile' agenda, including a post by an education professor in this forum.

Instead of being blown and swayed as an anchorless ship by the newest socially trendy wind, why don't we reconsider this and be prepared to take some flack over principle ?

Failure to have a thought out approach to culture and immigration etc, will have only one result, it will allow the true xenophobes and many an average Joe in the street to internalize it all, bottling it up until it comes out in VERY anti social ways due to frustration on the one hand and lack of action from where it should have come at policy levels on the other.