I reckon the debate about refugees in detention is not really about the refugees. More often than not, it is about broader political agendas. It is really about the future we want for this country.

Some posters seem to think Australia should be built entirely on immigration, whilst others don't.

A previous poster mentioned that people from the poorer world are moving into the richer world like never before. This is not a good thing. Poorer countries are losing their most healthiest, educated and motivated citizens to the richer countries. Inadvertantly, fleeing a strife torn country for a better life entrenches the country further into poverty. And people who flee are scorned by fellow countrymen unable to simply run away.

I would of thought the western demand for cheaper goods increases wealth for other countries. Look at China, for example. Most cheap consumer goods come from China, a country with the fastest (or one of) growing economy in the world. The same could be said about India.

Anyway, the mass movement into western (or richer) countries should be discouraged. Poverty is created by numerous factors; mainly corruption and over-population. Eliminate these factors and the refugees will be set free!

It's true you can't have illegal immigrants (or Di's Mexicans) I didn't know I bred them! undermining minimum wages which can certainly be a problem in any country. However, it does not solve the problem or address the issue of asylum seekers in this day and age. I am with the poster that has visited and spoken to these very real people in detention, that did not have the opportunity to come from a country that allowed them to apply to immigrate and quickly assimilate. Tick a box a) Canada b) NZ c) Australia. They are real people with our needs, our skills, to batten them down and pretend they aren't up on a par with us is rather heartless and judgemental.

As an Australian, we are in a rather luxurious positon of not being able to comprehend what it must be like when your political views are viewed and (often) misinterpreted by the State as being treacherous and threatening. Half of us posters would have been found out and taken out the back and shot by now on this forum in certain countries. Viva la freedom of speech! As a strong minded individual, I would be searching all over the planet for a country that I could safely live in and would allow me to make a living for my family. As a human, I think that I deserve that right and often I might not have the "running for my life" time to "queue" even if my country allowed me to. Not my fault that the country I happen to be born in doesn't allow it to happen.

Col: "You write using a simplicity of logic I would expect from someone born yesterday"
well a personal slur will prove a lot
I may not have the university education, or the years behind me that you do, but I believe what I have been told, and that is straight from the detainees

davo: "I reckon the debate about refugees in detention is not really about the refugees"
True. Howard is going to have to change his tune shortly - just watch him squirm out of this one - it's going to be an interesting rest of the year

Di: "Half of us posters would have been found out and taken out the back and shot by now on this forum in certain countries. Viva la freedom of speech!"
Yes! this was actually said to me by one of the men I spoke to - he mentioned the peace rallies, and how there had been large "puppets" of Howard and Blaire and Bush - he said that in his country (Iran) people would have been jailed for 20 years if not shot for this kind of behaviour

I think we are losing sight of the original context of the posting - Giorgiou says, "the great majority of asylum seekers who came by boat were found to be genuine refugees... People on temporary protection visas have been welcomed and integrated by Australian communities, and are making significant contributions. Many holders of temporary protection visas continue to live in anxiety and fear of being returned to places of great insecurity"

As I said earlier – mistakes are being made, and the system that is in place simply need to be overhauled. I am not saying that I think we should just be letting anyone in without any form of security check, but we need to have a system that does not allow people to be locked up indefinitely – it is psychologically destructive and cruel, especially to young children – one of the kids I met was not even old enough to be in school, and the others weren’t much older.

Mandi, I appreciate your attempt to bring this thread back to the issues and facts canvassed in the original article. I hope it succeeds. Too many here have been making wholly exaggerated statements ("rampant and uncontrolled flooding", no less) without an iota of evidence or rationale relevant to Australia's history, demography or geography. We can thank Petro Georgiou's own party and leader for fomenting the climate of fear and meanness in which such exaggerated claims are tolerated, even welcomed.

And you seem to be the only one here in this forum, who has taken the trouble to meet some of the men, women and children in detention, whom so many others are willing to villify without knowing.

Mandi and Fiona,
Totally agree with your posts.

It’s good to see openly compassionate people deliberating on this topic. It seems that positions of privilege always breed privileged and blind points of views, no matter how rationale and humanitarian they want others to believe they are. Locking children and legitimate refugees in detention is simply disgusting and inhumane. But so much of the discussion so far has attempted to side step this as a fundamental moral failing.
I’ve never been to a detention centre but know that its not a new approach in policy and practice in this country. See government establishment of Aboriginal reserves, mission, etcetera. http://www.aiatsis.gov.au/lbry/fmly_hstry/fmly_hstry_smr.htm

The history and experience of detention, separation and removal, inhumane treatment and demonisation are well known to Indigenous peoples. But it seems this history has no place in the knowledge required of many others discussing these same issues here.

For instance, what about the internment of Japanese Australian citizens and the internment of refugees from Nazi Germany who had arrived in Australia in the second half of the 1930s. Its seems that geography and history and demography are all seen as tools for Lefty conspiracies by the alarmists? yeah right!

And how dare we mention recent deportations of Australian citizens

A recent letter to the Guardian put this very well. Imagine that you have two countries. Eutopia has a stable population, good social cohesion and environmental standards, a democratically elected responsible government, and decent health, education and living standards. Dystopia has a population that is doubling every 25 years and devouring whatever is left of the environment. The people are ruled by a kleptocratic elite and by clerics of a pronatalist religion that preaches intolerance and misogyny. Decent health care and education are only for the rich, and social welfare is along the lines of "devil take the hindmost". Of course many people in Dystopia want to go to Eutopia, but if too many succeed they will turn Eutopia into the same sort of hellhole they left behind, without making Dystopia any less a hellhole. What about the responsibility of the Eutopians to their own children and to their bit of the environment?