There are just under 500 detainees at Villawood at the end of May 2005. There are between 60-70 children in detention at the end of May, with between 20-30 at Villawood.

As a fortnightly visitor to Villawood, I am aware that at any one time over the last few months, there were only about a dozen or so detainees who are refugees - the rest are visa overstayers. While the proposed private member's bills are a significant move in the right direction, they deal only with the detention policy of refugees. They do not address visa overstayers the likes of the now released Virginia Leong and her three-year old daughter, Naomi.

We need greater clarity in the current debate as to what the purported softening electorate considers to be appropriate treatment of any detainee under the current system. Are we saying that a sliding scale of inhumane treatment is acceptable or unacceptable depending on whether the detainee is an Australian resident (think Cornelia Rau), refugee or visa overstayer? Or are we saying that the whole immigration and detention system needs overhaul albeit small step by small step?

typical communist do-gooder!

Ad hominem, Penekiko. Better to play ball than play the person. I don't think an argument has been advanced.

You're right that an argument wasn't advanced in that comment, but it refers to a comment I posted previously where the argument was advanced that pro immigration status quo supporters are so lost for reason in their arguments that they resort to phrases such as 'in the real world' and 'do-gooder'.

If in doubt as to the interpretation, I would take 'do-gooder' as a badge of honour, kinda like some people take 'un-Australian' as a compliment. I threw the word communist in to make it all the more ridiculous.

Very occasionally, debates such as these give rise to comments that need to be separately preserved.

I would like to propose that the forum moderators instigate a competition for comments that rise above the ordinary, both the good and the bad. We can collect them in a separate thread somewhere, and vote for the champion of champions at the end of the year.

I'll start the ball rolling with my nomination for the "Mind-boggling, Breathtaking Arrogance" category.

"Free the children and you will have to free the parents who will evaporate into our society ,creating an under class of cheap labour that will diminish us all."

A gem.

In proposing it, I would like to point out both its delicious smack of snobbery, as well as the subtle, but marvellously emotive and evocative choice of the word "evaporate".

Albert:

If you want evidence that illegal immigrants can form an "underclass of cheap labor" take a look at California. Historian Victor Hanson's "Mexifornia: A State of Becoming" provides a good overview and the various US restrictionist sites like Vdare and Numbers USA provide numerous articles on the subject. You can always check their facts against independent sources. You will find that unskilled wages have been reduced and that social mobility is down. The public education system has gone from the best in the US to the second worst. A number of hospitals around the state have closed because the federal government mandates certain kinds of free care to illegal immigrants and they cannot afford to stay open under those conditions. The Salinas Library also closed this year. Its community can no longer meet the needs of the illegal immigrant population and still afford it. Basically the problem is that people on extremely low wages cannot afford to pay enough taxes to fund the public services that they use. The rich people who really do benefit from their presence have ways to avoid paying taxes.