Here is some information that I’ve found to throw some light on the Arab Israeli war in 67. This is not to say I’m painting the Israelis as the only wrongdoers in the region. I’m only producing them to show the Israelis are not as innocent as they want the world to believe

"The former Commander of the Air Force, General Ezer Weitzman, regarded as a hawk, stated that there was 'no threat of destruction' but that the attack on Egypt, Jordan and Syria was nevertheless justified so that Israel could 'exist according the scale, spirit, and quality she now embodies.'...Menahem Begin had the following remarks to make: 'In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.' "Noam Chomsky, "The Fateful Triangle."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it." Yitzhak Rabin, Israel's Chief of Staff in 1967, in Le Monde, 2/28/68
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The main danger which Israel, as a 'Jewish state', poses to its own people, to other Jews and to its neighbors, is its ideologically motivated pursuit of territorial expansion and the inevitable series of wars resulting from this aim...No zionist politician has ever repudiated Ben-Gurion's idea that Israeli policies must be based (within the limits of practical considerations) on the restoration of Biblical borders as the borders of the Jewish state." Israeli professor, Israel Shahak, "Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of 3000 Years."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In Israeli Prime Minister Moshe Sharatt's personal diaries, there is an excerpt from May of 1955 in which he quotes Moshe Dayan as follows: "[Israel] must see the sword as the main, if not the only, instrument with which to keep its morale high and to retain its moral tension. Toward this end it may, no - it must - invent dangers, and to do this it must adopt the method of provocation-and-revenge...And above all - let us hope for a new war with the Arab countries, so that we may finally get rid of our troubles and acquire our space." Quoted in Livia Rokach, "Israel's Sacred Terrorism."

I never cease to be amazed by the ignorance and shallowness of so-called intellectuals and "anti-Zionists" (often Jews themselves):
1. "Zionists" come in all shapes and ideologies. There are socialist Zionists, conservative Zionists, relgious Zionists and secular Zionists. "Zionism" is nothing more - or less - than the movement for national liberation of the Jewish people. Therefore, as in all movements of national liberation - there are all kinds of ideologies.
2. Not all "Zionists", therefore, support wars and conquests.
3. On the other hand - the very idea that of all peoples, the Jews are the only ones who do not have a right to self-determination is in and of itself based on a kind of racism and anti-semitism. It is not a question of whether one can abstractly differentiate between "anti-Jews" and "anti-Zionists" - of course one can, at least subjectively - but rather, whether objectively the denial of self-determination to the Jewish people is racist. It is.
4. It is obvious to any idiot that "anti-Zionism" is a new cover for anti-semitism in many (but not all) anti-Zionists. Anyone who doubts this is kidding himself or lying.
5. Most of the people in the forum who are anti-Israel and deny the "Zionist state's" right to exist - are more anti-Zionist than most Palestinians. Everybody who lives here knows that the Jews have always been an integral part of the Middle East (including, by the way, Ashkenazic Jews) and are going to stay here in a Jewish entity. Even most of the Hamas knows that (maybe some of the Iranians stick to the old doctrine, for their internal reasons ... these are your new allies???)Ask most Palestinian Arabs, they'll tell you that although Zionism created the Naqba - they realize that they have to live with a Jewish state and are even happy to do so. So what the hell are you people in the United States talking about? Silly juvenile posturing?

And one more thing: The Australian and American views about Zionism and Israel and extraorinarily similar - both on the left and the right. Why is that? Could it be because the Left in both countries has a knee-jerk need to find enemies and to dislike groups that are allied with mainstream politicians? Or does it have something to do with guilt about the creation of both countries? Let me know.

JOSH !! progress :) ( didn't think u were a lefty, but I was beginning to think that "Josh" = "disguised arab' :)

Yes, that was a great post. Much less controversial than your previous ones.
You made many pertinant observations, 2 of which I want to address here.

1/ about how would I feel if I was a Palestinian and suddenly lost everything. and
2/ I see the solution in Biblical terms.

I'll try to expand on those.

1/ If I was one..... Sure, I would have exactly the same feelings as the Arabs about the situation. Its not that I 'cannnot' see their feeling, I do see it.
I guess I'm more philosophical about it though.
I see my own surname, 'Ross' and I recall that my ancestors were driven out of Scotland (Rosshire) by the nobility in cahoots with English Lords who wanted more profitable sheep grazing land.
Then, I've been reading about the Viking invasions, the Norman invasions, the 'local' invasions of various try hard kings and nobles among the English, of Cromwell and the roundheads, his rather brutal supression of Catholic identity in Ireland etc. What I see is that nothing has changed. As Pericles has noted, its the ebb and flow of history. If one were to identify with ANY of the 'rough end of the stick' groups in these and all the other uncountable conflicts of the world, we would feel similar feelings of sadness.
But then, I look at me today, at the Brits, (most of whom will have a few red viking or french cells in their blood) and things can be pretty good once all the commotion has settled down. Its always the first generation, the one who 'experienced' the pushing and shoving which is most aggrieved.
Further, in regard to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict, there is a deeper issue, and thats the religious aspect. If u recall, Barach offered the PLO pretty much 90% plus of their demands, and if I'm not mistaken, even including East Jerusalem. Arafat rejected it. (Oslo)
I know they justify it by saying that they would have been 'divided' etcetc.. but I believe that was more a smokescreen than anything to provide an 'out' due to the real reason (at that time) of a more sinister agenda.
So, I try not to have emotional feelings on the issue, in the light of the normal flow of history. By that I mean, I prefer not to point to one side or the other and prescribe overall guilt or innocence based on specific incidents. I've been defending Israel yes, but only until we could get to THIS :) I would not defend brutality and when it comes to the various postures and 'who did what first' in the various military engagements, I feel better not trying to make value judgements on them, mainly because I see something bigger happening.

2/ Biblical Picture.
To address your 'theological point' about 'if God kicked them out, would he invite them back'. Exile and restoration have been recurring themes in Israelite history. The Babylonian was the main one and restoration under Cyrus the Persian. The reason Israel was punished was for their national waywardness. Have read of Isaiah 5 it will show God's attitude towards them during a time of national moral decline.
7 The vineyard of the LORD Almighty
is the house of Israel,
and the men of Judah
are the garden of his delight.
And he looked for justice, but saw bloodshed;
for righteousness, but heard cries of distress

....13 Therefore my people will go into exile <===== note this.

After that, when they had been punished, thru Isaiah, again, these words:(chapter 40)

1 Comfort, comfort my people, says your God. 2 Speak tenderly to Jerusalem, and proclaim to her that her hard service has been completed, that her sin has been paid for,

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not trying to 'bible bash' you with this, but I'm trying to show the pattern of 'National decline/ Punishment,Exile/ Restoration.'

Now, the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70, was prophesied by Jesus (matthew 24) but which seems to also have futuristic overtones (from that point) and there are some other references in Romans 9-11 about the restoration of the Jews. Not to mention the eternal nature of the covenant with Abraham. (Genesis 12 to 20 ish)

Bottom line, I can't see any reason for a geographical restoration as in 1948 to be out of the question.

At this point, it would be futile to go further, mainly because it would lead into a much broader discussion.
The only thing I would seriously urge, is to try to gain a deeper understanding of the Biblical piccy, (whether u believe it or not) because the Jews (the religious) believe it, and we cannot understand the political dynamics of the region apart from that.
The same goes for the Islamic side.

BUT NOW...its time for Church :) so I better be off.

GROPER...
I was rushed this morning and didn't have time to make a good response to your points then, so I'll try now.

To your relief I guess, I do take your points on board. And I accept their validity. So, I'm not disagreeing with you.

The point I do wish to emphasize though, is the one I shared with Josh, re the Biblical understanding. The pivotal issue is not whether "I" understand the situation in those terms, but that the ISRAELIS do :) If u see where Netanyahu stands on this issue, u might see why. (google Netanyahu).

Here is how I see things panning out:

The more extreme on both sides will see peace as breathing space to consolidate their positions, for the next round. The Islamic understanding of 'treaties' is very much along these lines.

Aspin
u captured some aspects of the issue that have not been expressed much here, specially the various 'types'.. well done.

Are you an Israeli ? welcome to this forum. By the way, most of us here are Australian, not American.