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The Forum > Article Comments > In 2005, women’s reproductive choices will prove fertile ground > Comments

In 2005, women’s reproductive choices will prove fertile ground : Comments

By Leslie Cannold, published 6/1/2005

Leslie Cannold argues that women are not to blame for low fertility rates because their fertility rates are constrained by factors beyond their control.

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That’s it! I’m starting a business. I even have a name for it – Ute ‘R’ Us.

Rent-a-Ute, was also considered, but apart from the fact that it is already used, it carries some negative connotations - I would like to market this portable device to both genders. Why limit your market? Women like Jennifer Anistonapoulos, Angelina Jolie, and “our Nic” are sure to be clients.

Thanks to all for those kind words of encouragement. Venture capital anyone?

Off I go do more research.
Posted by Seeker, Friday, 14 January 2005 2:22:38 PM
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I think you make a good point there about men and their lack of 'ownership' of a uterus and then resulting child...and about the courts and feminists being on the side for children being a 'womens' issue. Yet she can 'oops' you quite legally and there's not a god-damn thing you can do about it...actually - in that case there is - get the snip. It's free in Australia and doctors won't even bat an eyelid at sterilising a male. I did manage to get the same protection for myself, but it was a hard road as a woman to try and convince the doc that 1. I don't want kids and 2. that i wouldn't sue him if I changed my mind.

One of the main things I find disturbing about a lot of females and particularly those who call themselves 'feminists' is that they seem not to really want a solution, just a platform to whine from.
EG: Washing needn't be done every day - once a week would do. And it doesn't *really* require that much separating (i do only 'light' and 'dark')...but a lot of women while they whine about doing the washing, practically castrate their man if he tries to."You're not doing it right!" Sound familiar? Or how about so-called 'feminists' lobbying for designated parking for preggos. Way to send us back to the kitchen, lovey...
I know, I know, I know...women are women's worst enemy!

Tim - I can't help having a dig - if men know HOW to use the washing machine, how come they don't?
This is actually not true in my case as I have always lived with guys and they have always done the same share as me (except this one Maltese boyfriend I had once who thought it was fair game for me to do everything domestic AND support his arse.. that didn't last long as you can guess!). The two experiences living with females has shown me that domestic laziness is not the exclusive domain of the male.
Posted by Newsroo, Friday, 14 January 2005 4:18:43 PM
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Timity wrote

I think you have nailed it there seeker with “ownership of the uterus”. There is now so much legality involved with children. In the past men and women were encouraged to marry young and start producing. This was a necessity because there was a fairly low life expectancy rate, but neither the father nor the mother had any great “legal” ownership of the children, and it was rarely an issue because divorce was rare.

Not sure if its your memory or your knowledge of history that you've lost here Timithy but I feel a 'feminist diatribe' coming on! (Quickly, bring my medication!)

This statement is wrong on so many levels that books have been written about it! I am referring to British society here and this can presumably be extrapolated to some degree to Australia as a British colony. I don't know what era you are referring to when you say, 'in the past' - 50 years ago it was rare for couples to marry in their teens - but besides that small thing your statement that, 'neither the father or the mother had any legal ownership of the children', even if we go back only another 50 years, is just poppycock! As recently as 100 years ago men were the unchallenged head of the family - they owned the property, they owned the children and they 'owned' their wives! Divorce was rare because women had to jump through hoops to obtain a divorce and once they did they walked away with nothing. As most of them had been 'prevented', (by social and medical norms), from ever earning their own living they had little chance of supporting themselves and even less of ever seeing their children again. All professionals were men, all politicians were men, all laws and social conventions were defined by men except within the domestic environment.

This is probably very inflammatory in a civilised discussion like this but I just can't resist......don't you think the reason there is so little research into 'men's rights' may be due to the fact that until roughly the last 100 years men were in charge of all the research and never had to question their rights? They had it all, all the 'rights' belonged to them, political, economic, social, medical, etc. Gradually women have achieved political rights, (the vote), property rights, (their contribution to the home has been recognised), education rights, (initially to basic education and then tertary education), medical rights, (their right to decide what happens to their own body, as well as their uterus),labour rights, (they are 'allowed' to work now - but not at the same pay rate as men!). These rights were not only gained by the work of women of course, men recognized this inequality and fought along side women, and social factors were involved, e.g. the need to use female labour in both World Wars when men were away being slaughtered 'proved' finally that gentlewomen wouldn't 'go mad' by having to work, (as lower class women had for centuries - work that is, not go mad!), but still they were pushed back into the homes when the men came back for the jobs.

So in the last 100ish years we have gone from a society where men controlled everything to where there is some semblance of equality. Some would say this has gone too far, for example a man who desires custody of his children and is denied it for reasons only the courts are privy to. But my feelings are, in any area we feel that has swung too far in favour of women, things will balance out eventually, with men and women gaining more eqaul rights.

The inequality in the distribution of housework, and the ineaquality in parental rights, are things that will swing backwards and forwards depending on social factors but when push comes to shove it is the woman that has the uterus, carries the baby, gives birth, and in many cases is left to bring up the child with no emotional or financial assistance from the biological father. The few women that lie about their contraceptive status to concieve, for whatever reason, are far outweighed by the number of fathers avoiding their paternal responsibilities, for many and complex reasons maybe, and the 'single parent family' consisting of a man and children is still relatively rare.

Rambling now - just my 2c worth!
Posted by JoJo, Friday, 14 January 2005 7:55:23 PM
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Jo,Jo - I think you have been reading something out of a particular type of handbook. It has only been in recent times that there have been enough breakthroughs in areas such as medical science, food production, hygiene etc to get a comparatively high life expectancy rate. Prior to that life was very much a matter of day-to-day survival against many odds.

In some tribes living in the bush, a woman had to be pregnant many times in her short life for there to be enough children surviving to continue on the human species, due to high rates of miscarriage, death during childbirth, infant mortality, disease, starvation etc. That is life in the natural world and much of our sexual and reproduction systems are still geared for this.

The belief that men had lots of “money” and lots of “rights” but purposely kept them from women is feminist bunk. The vast majority of people had almost no money, minimal material possessions and minimal rights. The only time my mother ate chicken was occasionally at Christmas time, and most of the time her family lived on ox-tail, liver, kidneys, pigs trotters or fish my grandfather caught from the local river. They didn’t own a car, only my grandfather owned a bike which he rode many miles to get to work each day. They had a wood stove and my grandmother had a large pot to boil up clothes to wash them in the back yard. They were a normal family.

There were almost no “rights”. You did what you were told, men and women. At work if the boss said jump, you had to or you didn’t have a job, and most of the work was very physically demanding. Do you think men would send their wives out to work in a factory where most of the work was heavy manual work carried out in very harsh conditions, (and I once worked in a factory for 20 yrs and heard what conditions were like before my time) or send their women to work in a coal mine, or into a field to walk behind a draught horse all day (and yes I remember sitting on fences watching farmers plough fields with such a horse and my father’s original trade was to make the bridal gear and harnesses for these horses). The “vote” was almost unheard of, remembering that Australia was the first country to use a ballot paper. If someone had a vote they often couldn’t read anyway, and this is still the case in many countries.

This is not included in the handbooks of course but none of the above is that long ago, and I have seen some of it, and also tasted my grandmother's pressed tongue and ox-tail soup. She once used to cook dugong.

But now we have a society where women journalists are allowed to write articles encouraging other women to “get rid of their man” as I read recently in a major Australian newspaper.

Nature does find a balance, and many of the people who like to try and indoctrinate other men and women with false notions and men-hating attitudes will not find a mate and pass on their genes. That is nature’s way of ultimately finding a balance.
Posted by Timkins, Friday, 14 January 2005 10:06:58 PM
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OK, here are my initial thoughts on the Ute "R" Us device (Copyright, Worldwide Patent Pending, all rights reserved by Seeker Corporation - incorporation pending).

Backpack model in your favourite colours and styles.
This model will be favoured by those expectant perents wishing to be close to their Ute "R" Us device at all times. Extremely mobile and practical unit that is fully shock proof and allows unrestricted movement while shopping, commuting to and from work, for general office or light housework duties. This unit offers the best of both worlds - feel the weight and the kicking, but save your body and lifestyle.

Capsule/Cradle model - perfect for the home or car.
This model is for active fathers who don't feel the need to be with their Ute "R" Us device, don't need social welfare, seats on buses etc., but who may want to take their fetus on weekends away. The capsule/cradle model is a wireless network device with its own IP address anabling remote monitoring over the internet. The device can also sent SMS messages to 3 different numbers, if any of its enviromental variables reach predefined limits. Comes with rechargable 36 hour battery and car charger.

Both units guarantee you will never again have to compromise your reproductive rights, or debate cynical feminists over the internet. Just pick up your Ute "R" Us device and visit your nearest IVF clinic. Easy instructions allow anyone to implant test tube material, then perform the weekly bio topups. The capsule/cradle model will even make your Doctors appointments automatically. Guilt-free and painless birth guaranteed.
Posted by Seeker, Saturday, 15 January 2005 1:33:38 AM
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Seeker, you can put my name down for one of those devices. I don’t mind doing a bit of housework and I quite like looking after children, and I wouldn’t mind having another child.

However, will there be any restrictions on the use of this device, or can some people start mass-producing themselves.
Posted by Timkins, Saturday, 15 January 2005 2:13:42 AM
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