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The Forum > Article Comments > In 2005, women’s reproductive choices will prove fertile ground > Comments

In 2005, women’s reproductive choices will prove fertile ground : Comments

By Leslie Cannold, published 6/1/2005

Leslie Cannold argues that women are not to blame for low fertility rates because their fertility rates are constrained by factors beyond their control.

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Low fertility is not a financial problem for Australia. In November the Productivity Commission released a report entitled "Implications of the Future Ageing of Australia's Population." That report says we will be twice as rich in 40 years and tax and health systems are NOT likely to be overstretched.

Working out the reasons that men and women have more or less children is important for the individual happiness of the parents, but it is not vital for the economic prosperity of Australia.
Posted by ericc, Thursday, 6 January 2005 6:34:46 PM
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I find it encouraging that Dr Leslie Cannold and others are hinting at the possibility that men could be an integral part of this declining fertility equation. It is unfortunate though, that only “absent, reluctant or sexist men” hold such influence.

These days it seems even blind Freddie can see the pitfalls of marriage and family. No fault divorce, and its impact on marriage and divorce, is by far the biggest factor influencing current family outcomes. When the wider legal and social framework is taken into account (let’s not even mention its various dysfunctional agencies), it is not difficult to see how men could feel extremely disadvantaged.

Current statistics reveal nearly half of marriages fail. At least 70% of those, are dissolved by women, and mostly after having children. These do not create an environment conducive to either gender, to start families and have (more) children. Other social policies also come together to discourage, not enhance, our fertility rate.

Men en masse, are voting with their cold feet. Women of course, continue to make their “choices” from all available options. Until we make more serious attempts to understand the complex dynamics of declining fertility, this situation is not likely to change. Men deserve equal rights (not just responsibility) when it comes to families and children.
Posted by Seeker, Friday, 7 January 2005 9:48:00 AM
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Perhaps men could choose to improve themselves and become desirable and EQUAL partners in all aspects of family and childrearing life.
Let's see...why would a woman choose to be single, raising children?

Because she's tired of cleaning up after a man as well as the children.
Because she's fed up with being the sole carer of the children, while a man reluctantly 'babysits' his own children
Because even when she contributes economically via wages she still does the majority of the domestic work when she returns home
Because she may not have any sense of control with the families finances, her male partner expects to make the important decisiions,
Because women are physically, mentally and emotionally violated on mass scales in Australia, and statistically this is found to be exacted by the man she loves,
Because the murder rate of women in Australia shows she will be murdered by a partner, rather than a total stranger.

The question is not why men are discarded by women after marriage and childbearing, rather why would a woman put up with such social inequities.

Men are not being "put up" with anymore! The advice our mothers and grandmothers received no longer sit well with women who expect and demand that they be treated with respect and given the same sense of power in their own lives, that men have obviously taken for granted for so long.
Posted by oceangrrl, Sunday, 9 January 2005 11:59:04 AM
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Ocean Grrl,

Perhaps you have had a bad experience with a man not washing up or maybe worse some form of domestic violence. Violence is abhorrent and no-one, man, woman or child should have to put up with it.

Still though, there are many thousands of men out there who are actually kind, caring husbands and fathers.

I know it is hard to believe not all men are bastards but the stereotype, like all stereotypes, is misguided.

Returning to the main point of the article, fertility rates and marriage rates are not so intrinsically linked, certainly not any more.

Divorces happen both before and after children are involved, many couples choose to have children and not get married.

Why Ocean Grll chooses to turn an article about women's career and maternal choices into a rant about men doing the chores is drawing a long bow.
Posted by the usual suspect, Sunday, 9 January 2005 4:53:45 PM
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I got the point of the article to be that, in a society of falling or stable birthrate, women's choices to have more children are constrained for a number of reasons - one of which is, 'absent, reluctant or sexist men'. It is only one of many complex reasons but none the less the points that 'oceangrrl' makes are relevant to this and therefore relevant to the article. The fact that 'the usual suspect' chooses not to acknowledge the grinding daily slog that the majority of women suffer while trying to persuade their partners to take more responsibility for day to day tasks in the home and caring for children I feel adds weight to her point! And no, I haven't been a victim of domestic violence or been embittered by a man not doing the washing up!!!!
Posted by JoJo, Monday, 10 January 2005 1:53:34 PM
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Here's just a thought. There are many women the age of my mother who I have heard say "don't get me wrong I love my kids, but if I had my time over I wouldn't have any". When I asked why they did have children they said "because that's what we were expected to do", "I didn't think I had a choice" etc.

Maybe, is this "fertility crisis" also stems from ability of women now feeling more able to say, I don't want the traditional motherhood thing, I am in no way maternal and kids are not part of my equation, either verbally or by finding "excuses" not to go down the motherhood track. It is somewhat more acceptable now then it was even 20 years ago, athough some people think women are subnormal who choose not to have children. I don't hear much about that.

Are we afraid as a society to admit not everyone likes or wants children and "maternal instinct" is not inherant in all women? Brings up some interesting questions like, if they aren't all meant to have babies, then what else are they meant to do? Run a multinational? Heaven forbid!!

By the way, I have a wonderful husband who does more than his share of the housework and treats me like a goddess. Not all men are ogres, but again I do know of quite a few who wouldn't know how to turn on the washing machine let alone know you need to separate the whites from the colours, and don't get me started on Bathroom scum!

It takes all sorts to make the world, and I think the reasons people are not having children is a very complex mix!
Posted by Nita, Monday, 10 January 2005 3:38:11 PM
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