AndrewC
thanks for the heads up. I've also added my protect. It's a pity some journalists have jumped on the zenophobic bandwagon. I'm happy to have a difference of opinion but I at least want the full facts and truth - not just the 'spin' we get in this modern age.

All this fuss and palaver about what is really an imaginary problem! Poor old John Stone using dodgy stats and fulminating about a world long gone.
The most interesting statistic I have heard is that since 1950 we've lost something like 350,000 Australians in car accidents and 1000 (yes, 1000) Australians in all wars and terrorist acts (Korea, Vietnam, Timor, The Gulf 1 and 2, and Bali). If we really want to protect Australian lives we should be banning cars not Muslim immigrants.
Britain has been subject to terrorism for a very long time. Until recently, perpetrated mostly by Irish Catholics, though I never heard anyone demand Irish immigration be stopped at the time. Like most white people who commit crimes they were seen as individual bad guys, not representative of all Irish Catholics. its only when people we perceive as alien (non-white or non-Christian) commit crimes that we make outrageous generalistaions, it seems.
People are just people, some are good, some not so good, no matter where they come from. Muslims who come here have much more to fear from us than we have from them. There are so few of them, in a couple of generations they are likely to be as well integrated as the displaced persons from Europe who came after WW2 and the Italians and Greeks who arrived in the 50s, 60s and 70s. Perhaps that is why a few of their Imams (like a few of our Imams - silly old John Stone being one) froth at the mouth so, they know their way of life is going out backwards. Why don't we argue about a problem that really exists, like some of the racist hatred expressed by some posters on this thread. Now those guys are really scarey.

Thanks davo: look up the meaning of ingrate.

I am not forcing my ideas down any one's throat. I am ah, er, umm, ... expressing an opinion! thats it; expressing an opinion.

There's no need for me to go to Asia I have everything I want right here. For as long as it lasts.

I am taking a leaf out of Raineirs post elsewhere who swore off the type of personal invectice I have engaged in ; highly innapropriate of me I agree. But there are times when my attention is drawn to the tedious and I cant hep myslef.

But I will do it no more.

Hey I would like to assess Ranier's last post for everyone, based on how it contributes to this discussion.

Points:
- Left wing people have humanitarian, respectable and well informed opinions, while Right Wing people are not.
- Left Wing people make arguements based on logic, evidence and well considered thought.
- Right Wing people lack intellectual depth and sincerity.
- Right Wing people are arrogant.

Translation:
- Ranier is prejudiced against anyone he puts in this "Right Wing" box and will subsequently discriminate against them.
- Ranier believes that because his attitudes are Left Wing (Left wing is just whatever he's thinking at the time), they are "well informed", while any others "lack intellectual depth and sincerity".

Summary:
- Ranier debates with people by:
a) Stereotyping them into boxes (right, left, chicken wing)
b) Posting emotive abuse with negative connotations.
c) Hoping that by throwing mud and launching character assasinations, people will see his point. Note that this completely breaks the ideal on the previous post about using evidence based arguements.
- In Ranier's world this is alright. His opinions (oops i mean Left Wing thinking) are respectable while all the Right wing people (i.e. anyone who disagrees with him) lack intellectual depth.

Anyone who understands the introduction of communism into USSR will know that only 5%, yes 5%, of the population were members of the Communist Party when it fell to Communism. It was just that they had control of the vital positions of power within USSR. It does not need 51% of people holding an ideology to capture a Nation and subject it under control.

Islam will not assimilate with a bunch of drunkard, drug affected, sexually debauched, adulterers as they see as the norm in Australian society. They prefer to see it destroyed because it is an inferior culture and an affront to Allah. I can tell you it is also an affront to me being Christian. But such behaviour is the person's choice and they for such are answerable. True Islamist will never accept such degrading lifestyles.

Here are at least five ways to capture a nation:
1. Kill, capture and subdue its inhabitants
2. Breed to overpopulate
3. Capture its positions of power: government, media, education etc
4. Buy or control all its wealth
5. Indoctrinate its people

So interesting to read this forum.

As I have said previously, I think we should halt muslim immigration until the terrorism ceases. Especially if John Howard wishes us to remain in Iraq.

The ones who are here already should be made to feel welcome and the government should continue to work with their communities against potentially violent fundamentalism.

I do have a concern about the rise of Islamic schools which prevent muslim Australians mixing with non muslim Australians. How can these kids ever feel part of the community when they are being islolated in the educational setting