Nurse…while he’s not looking, take away his biro!

Israel faces three main problems, the least of which are the Palestinians.

First and foremost of the three are Israelis them selves, and in particular the US diaspora, who according to a recent survey, will continue to support with a vote, the Democrat Administration of Biden in November.

Secondly, the Biden Administrations handling of Israel, using the above group of the misguided, to destabilise the Netanyahu Democratically elected Israeli Government, promoting internal discord and instability which, as at yesterday, is in full scale revolt.

Which leads to the third issue of US destabilisation and outright usurping of the difficult war effort by those majority at home, still in support of the war effort of Netanyahus legal coalition.

In effect, this author is representative of the traitors set to hasten the defeat of their own Country in war.

I have always admired the author of this article
for usually presenting such balanced views.

However, with all due respect, this time I'm
probably not the only one who disagrees with
his take on what Israel is doing.

" An objective, methodological, and detailed analysis,"
conducted in part by the Boston University School of Law's
International Human Rights Clinic as part of a report from
the Universal Network for Human Rights ( UNHR), and a
consortium of human rights centers at Colleges across the
world has released its findings.

The UNHR report released in mid May concludes that:

"Israel has committed genocidal acts, namely killing,
severely harming, and inflicting conditions of life
calculated and intended to bring about the physical
destruction of Palestinians in Gaza."

We're told that the report was researched and written by
UNHR members from Law International HUman Rights Clinic,
the International Human Rights Clinic at Cornell Law
School, the Centre for Human Rights at the University of
Pretoria in South Africa and the Lowenstein Human
Rights Project at Yale Law School.

The reports conclusions are based on internationally agreed
definition of genocide.

The report says:

"After reviewing the facts established by Independent Human
Rights monitors, journalists, and UN agencies, we conclude
that Israel's actions in and regarding Gaza since Oct 7th 2023 -
violates the Genocide Convention."

There's more at:

http://bu.edu/articles/2024/is-israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza/#

My apologies.

Here's the link again:

http://bu.edu/articles/2024/is-israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza/#:

Middle Eastern conflicts of the 20th century.

Iran-Iraq war - duration 8 years - 1,100,000 killed - No one cares
Darfur Genocide - duration 12 years - 450.000 killed - no one cares
Syrian Civil War duration 4years - 350.000 killed - no one cares
Iraq Uprising 1991 - duration 2 months - 250.000 killed - no one cares
Anfal campaign 1988 - duration 3 years - 200.000 killed - no one cares
Yemini Wars - duration 52 years - 200.000 killed - no one cares
Arab-Israeli Wars - duration 95 years - 100.000 killed - Genocide - Get the UN involved. Sue, sue. Cut of arms supply. Dastardly Jews.

Its not a genocide but the term is used to delegitimise the Jewish state and save the Hamas leadership from the consequences of their idiocy of 7/10/23.

Of course, given the massive tunnel systems found by the Israelis on the Egyptian-Gaza border in the past weeks, it is clear that much of the anxiety to stop Israel completing its mission was to save Egypt from having its part in arming Hamas from being exposed and saving the Biden regime from being exposed as being complicit in that process.

Four Jewish hostages were rescued last week. They were being held by Gazan families, many of whom were killed in the process. Some worked for the UN. Some worked for Al Jazeera. None were innocent victims. Yet the international community, embarrassed that the hostages were found and released, claimed all those killed, who were complicit in holding hostages, were somehow innocents killed as part of a genocide.

Israel needs to, and will, complete its mission

Great article, thank you Alon.

Israel may be reckless but not genocidal. To be sure, there ARE Israelis (and others) who support genocide, believing that "a good Arab is a dead Arab". Fortunately they are a minority - only about 12%.

They are not the people who found Israel in the first place.
They are not Zionist, theirs is not the Zionist philosophy.
They are Nazis, plain and simple.
They weigh heavily on Israel and its continued existence.

Some 3000 years ago there ruled in the small Assyrian vassal province of Judea, of mostly 5000 people, a brutal warlord, called David, who murdered innocent people with pleasure when he coveted their property or wife. He also enjoyed faking history to increase his fame and glory, which was easy then when most people could not read. The Assyrians didn't mind, so long as he paid them their taxes. Modern Archaeology reveals that despite the biblical text, neither he nor his son Solomon, ever ruled the greater northern province of Israel. Even his legendary "great temple" in Jerusalem, presumably built with Lebanese cedars, was just a small building for worshipping the local goddess of Asherah.

Now these Messianic Jews (and Christian friends) desire to establish David's "royal" lineage over Israel, then subjugate the Middle-East and indeed the rest of the world to their "Messiah" (=saviour) and turn Israel into a theocracy not unlike Iran, where those who break the Biblical laws are punished by death (needless to mention, David himself never observed these laws).

These are Israel's greatest enemies, who are even more dangerous than Hamas.

---

Dear Mhaze,

Most of the 200 Gazans killed during the release of the four Israeli hostages had nothing to do with the hostages. Some were Hamas militants and others just happened to be in the market when Hamas rushed in from all sides to capture the Israeli rescuers as they retreated with the hostages. As Hamas shot the engine of their truck, the rescuers got unexpectedly stuck and a large force was needed to create a wall of fire between them and the converging Hamas.

The Center For Constitutional Rights in New York has
written on " The Genocide of the Palestinian People:
An International Law and Human Rights Perspective."

They tell us that " Prominent scholars of the International
Law Crime of Genocide and Human Rights Authorities have
taken the position that Israel's policies toward the
Palestinian People could constitute a form of genocide."

They say that - "the policies range from 1948 mass killing
and displacement of Palestinians, to a half century of
military occupation and the discriminatory legal regime
governing Palestinians, the repeated assault on Gaza, and
the official Israeli statements expressed favouring the
elimination of Palestinians."

We're further told that "Genocide is a term that has both
legal and sociological meaning. That it was coined in 1944
by Jewish Polish legal scholar - Raphael Lemkin."

He explained that:

"More often (genocide) refers to a co-ordinated plan aimed
at the destruction of the essential foundations of the life
of national groups so that these groups wither and die like
plants, that have suffered a blight."

The ICC has issued arrest warrants for both Israeli
and Hamas leaders for war crimes and crimes against
humanity.

Yuyutsu

#a large force was needed to create a wall of fire between them and the converging Hamas.#

So let’s look at the validity of the truth of that or not, it was only Hamas operatives converging.

As something to judge it by, the Hamas attackers on 10/7 were in uniform. Witnesses and video records show one third were actually Hamas operatives, while two thirds were Palestinian youths dressed in civilian clothing.

Are you defending Palestinians again?

Dear Dan,

«Are you defending Palestinians again?»

I am only stating things as they are.

- and anyway, how could I defend "Palestinians" when there are no such people?

Of those 200+ Gazans killed and 700+ wounded, many, possible half of which Hamas operatives, but also innocent Gazans who happened to be at the market, the vast majority were hit as a result of the firewall Israel needed to apply in order to help the releasing force to withdraw and leave the place safely with the released hostages after their escape-truck was hit at the engine and stopped going - not at the site where the hostages were kept.

Like it or not, but Israel would not leave its forces behind.

"The ICC has issued arrest warrants for both Israeli and Hamas leaders for war crimes and crimes against humanity."

FALSE. I'll leave you to do your research to work out why.

"Some 3000 years ago there ruled in the small Assyrian vassal province of Judea, of mostly 5000 people, a brutal warlord, called David..."

There's essentially no evidence other than the Bible that such a person existed.

Offered without comment...

http://www.thefp.com/p/when-hostages-come-home

Dear Mhaze,

«There's essentially no evidence other than the Bible that such a person existed.»

Nothing conclusive, but one script was discovered which indicates that even if David never existed, the lineage of Judaic kings, over 100 years later, believed him to be their ancestor.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Dan_stele

This does not contradict the archaeological findings that the "kingdom" of Judea at the time was tiny, with no more than 5000 people and its capital, Jerusalem, being only 15 acres in size.

What matters now, is that some 12% of Israeli citizens are actively striving to bring that lineage back to rule over Israel and the world.

Other orthodox Jews also believe the Bible that David existed and that his descendent will one day come and rule again as Messiah, however they assign that task to God, once He forgives the people of Israeli for their transgressions for which they were exiled. They pray for it - but oppose any forceful/wilful attempts to bring him at present.

Yuyutsu

#I am only stating things as they are.#

So am I.

#defend "Palestinians" when there are no such people?#

That’s splitting hairs.

#Of those 200+ Gazans killed and 700 wounded #

Figures given by the totally discredited Gaza Ministry of Health. Divide the figure by ten would be believable, on past highly exaggerated estimates of similar events.

Hamas are quite fond of shooting their own citizens. Why not follow the trend of lies and consider a scenario where Hamas turned weapons onto the market place for effect.
That is not beyond the realm of possibilities.

Further, Hamas engage as an out of uniform weaponised contingent, camouflaged among civilian populations, legitimising civilian casualties in a battle with the internationally legal and conformist Israeli military.

Under these circumstances, which I’m sure you already recognise, why do you quote outlandish lies as fact?
Is it maybe, these lies are regularly quoted by Bidens Administration as such fact?
One wonders about you and your true motivations Yuyutsu.

Dear Dan,

Israel did not challenge these numbers, but simply explained that many of those killed were Hamas operators who rushed in from all over the camp to attack the retreating Israeli liberators. Israel itself admits that it had no choice but to shoot anyone who went close to the liberating force, which could not defend themselves because they came in camouflaged as displaced Gazan refugees and thus were very lightly armed.

I get my news directly from Israel - neither from Hamas nor from America or Australia.

" but one script was discovered which indicates that even if David never existed, the lineage of Judaic kings, over 100 years later, believed him to be their ancestor."

Yes and the Greeks considered Menelaus to have been their king and Athens believed it was founded by Theseus. All mythology.

"Other orthodox Jews also believe the Bible that David existed and that his descendent will one day come and rule again"

Yes and Christians believe their messiah will return and rule the world. And Mohammedans think likewise. Pretty standard among the Abrahamic religions and not particularly relevant.

In the General Discussion Index of this forum -
I brought up for discussion the fact that
the ICC was seeking arrest warrants for Israel
and Hamas leaders.

The ICC's prosecutor Karim Khan has announced that
he was pursuing arrest warrants for Israeli PM
Netanyahu and the Israeli Defence Minister Yoav
Gallant and 3 leading Hamas figures.

I explained in my opening post of that discussion
that evidence will be considered by a panel of
3 judges before a decision is made.

Of course this announcement by the ICC was followed
by predictable vitriol by supporters of Israel - even
questioning the court's chief prosecutor's
impartiality despite his having chosen to include
both sides of the conflict to be culpable - and his
having vast legal experience in criminal law.

Agnes Callamard, Amnesty International's Secretary-General,
sums up the situation in Gaza in the following way:

"For 16 years, Israel's illegal blockade has made
Gaza the world's biggest open-air prison. The
international community must act now to prevent it
becoming a giant graveyard."

Israel continues to do what it's been doing.
It has razed the coastal enclave making it unliveable.
Prompted a catastrophic humanitarian crisis and
killed thousand of civilians.

These current arrest warrants may or may not be carried
out, but it is important that the global community
upholds international law. The prosecutor and his legal
experts see justice delayed, as justice denied.

It would be tragic if we have more loss of lives in an
effort to hold few individuals accountable. But to do
nothing is not an option.

Will the ICC fulfill the Nuremberg vision that inspired
its existence - "I was only following order," or
"We are only defending ourselves," should not
be used as an excuse here.

"the ICC was seeking arrest warrants for Israel
and Hamas leaders."

Yes....seeking. Not, as you asserted above, "issued". I wonder if you understand the difference?

"Agnes Callamard, Amnesty International's Secretary-General,
sums up the situation in Gaza ..."

Who cares what Amnesty says. It been thoroughly discredited....

http://lansinginstitute.org/2022/08/15/amnesty-international-reports-lose-credibility-and-signal-of-being-infiltrated-and-influenced-from-outside/

" The final reports regarding Israel signal about anti-Semitic sentiment within the organization. Bell asserted that Amnesty impose different standards on Israel than other countries. For instance, he noted that Amnesty UK attacked Israel for providing Jewish people with a right to move to Israel. However, Bell argued, many countries have diaspora populations that they give preference to in immigration, and no others have been critiqued.

Amnesty International employees have been caught saying false, anti-Israeli, and anti-Semitic things on their personal platforms, yet no actions have been taken against the individuals responsible. "

Yuyutsu

#I get my news directly from Israel - neither from Hamas nor from America or Australia.#

There’s your problem!

The MS Israeli media is more controlled than the Western media.

Find another way of informing yourself maybe!

The heading I gave in my earlier discussion - "ICC
SEEKS Arrest Warrants for Israel - Hamas Leaders,"
were clear to most people.

Amnesty International has received a great deal of
controversy for its reports and criticisms of Israel.
It stands by the principal that every country under
attack has the right to defend itself. But in
defending itself every country is bound by the same
fundamental rules.. They must comply with International
Humanitarian Law.

We need to welcome this step by the ICC, and the work of
organizations like Amnesty to stop entrenched impunity
and to hold those responsible for the commission of
international crimes accountable and bring them to
justice.

No one should be above international law.

Of course the ICC and Amnesty will not be able to avoid
the inevitable political fallout from their actions.
But in behaving the way that they have, they have
strengthened their legitimacy as agents of international
criminal justice.

Agnes Callamard - Amnesty International's Secretary-General,
is a French Human Rights Activist and an investigator of
violations in armed conflicts.

An experienced highly respected professional. Similar in
reputation to Karim Khan's impartiality and experience. Both
have reputations for seeing both sides of conflicts.

Dear Mhaze,

«Yes and Christians believe their messiah will return and rule the world. And Mohammedans think likewise. Pretty standard among the Abrahamic religions and not particularly relevant.»

Devout Christians, Muslims and Jews PRAY for God to bring their version of the Messiah ASAP - I take no issue with that.

What makes it relevant, is when people attempt to hasten the Messiah's coming by taking proactive steps themselves.

In Christianity and Islam we are only talking of some tiny isolated cults, but in Judaism it is a significant sect - the followers of Rabbi Kook (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Isaac_Kook), who believe that Messiah's coming depends on Jews settling the whole land of Israel!

Kook's theology is based on his interpretation of the erotic Biblical book, "Song of Songs". In there, the maiden is alone at home at night when her lover knocks on the door, but the maiden answers, "I am sleepy, I am already undressed, I already washed my feet, come back tomorrow", then she gets up to open the door anyway, but by then it is too late and the lover is gone, she searches for him the whole night but never finds him again. The maiden of course is Israel (in Christianity she is considered to represent the Church) and the lover is God, who says "open up for me just a slit and I will then open the door wide", and opening the slit, according to Kook, is by settling the whole land of Israel, by whatever means it takes.

Well if you genuinely believed that God is knocking on your door, offering you salvation if you open, wouldn't you do the same, anything required?

---

Dear Dan,

«The MS Israeli media is more controlled than the Western media.»

While I disagree, you provided no alternate version as to how many Gazans were killed, where, when and why.

Anyway, suffice that you then agree that I did not receive my information directly or indirectly from the American Biden administration, whom you so much dislike.

"were clear to most people."

Except you apparently.

So if you knew before that they were only seeking the warrants why did you say they'd been issued? (a) forgot (b) thought you'd egg the pudding (c) mixed up your fantasy world with reality (d) all the above.

Seriously, we all know you screwed up. Just own up and move on. Why is that beyond your integrity levels?

Its hardly a major issue but your ability to get things wrong and then bend over forwards to try to hide it is just so comical.

Mhaze,
"Four Jewish hostages were rescued last week. They were being held by Gazan families, many of whom were killed in the process. Some worked for the UN. Some worked for Al Jazeera. None were innocent victims. Yet the international community, embarrassed that the hostages were found and released, claimed all those killed, who were complicit in holding hostages, were somehow innocents killed as part of a genocide."

Yuyutsu,
"Most of the 200 Gazans killed during the release of the four Israeli hostages had nothing to do with the hostages. Some were Hamas militants and others just happened to be in the market when Hamas rushed in from all sides to capture the Israeli rescuers as they retreated with the hostages. As Hamas shot the engine of their truck, the rescuers got unexpectedly stuck and a large force was needed to create a wall of fire between them and the converging Hamas."

-Whats the truth?
Your truth, his truth, someone else's maybe?

I'm late to this story.
But this is the "truth" I got.
http://youtu.be/0xrPdTo_wBw

Yuyutsu

The numbers game:

I’m not playing it, I simply call you out for quoting the enemies inflated count.

Which implies to me, some inconsistency with your position, as the IDF version of casualties is significantly less, and also public knowledge.

My intense dislike of Democrats is well noted by you; that dislike extends to the Jewish masochists backing in behind them with their leftist Political destabilisation tactics in Israel.

The mess Israel finds itself in now, is a direct consequence of Obamas JCPOA disastrous Iranian appeasement policy, carried further by Bidens Administration, which promotes the interests of Iran above Israel.

So you claim not to be associated with the leftist Democrats, but your oft stated position mirrors their every move, either mysteriously or coincidentally.

Dear Critic,

Whatever the truth, it saddens me that Netanyahu gained a bit of reputation by freeing the four hostages.

When an operation succeeds he takes all the credit, and when similar operations failed and Israeli soldiers and hostages died, he remained silent.

He had the chutzpah to call Noa Argamani immediately after her release, in hospital, before she could even meet her dying mother, just for his own public relations, all televised, not caring how she feels to hear his disgusting voice, the voice of the man who sent her to that hell and kept her there for his own political survival. I heard that conversation - he was so slimy! Of course she had nothing to say to that bastard, but one would need extreme courage to look so ungrateful and slam that phone at the wall while all her rescuers were still around, so she didn't, thus suffered yet another humiliation on top of all that Hamas did to her.

Nevertheless, despite it all, if I had a chance of rescuing hostages, I would have done so again, and again, and again, and should they be attacked while retreating, I too would create a wall of fire around them to prevent their recapture, letting whoever comes close be shot, in their 100's, 1000's or millions as necessary, because even the fate of a dead hostage is better than the fate of a live one.

Of course, the best CHANCE of rescuing hostages, is through a cease-fire deal, but I am not convinced at all that Hamas would respect such a deal and release the hostages. They are now demanding for Israel to withdraw first, before they even release one hostage - why would they release any then?!

---

Dear Dan,

My views are my own.
Tough luck if there happen to be similarities between them and those of others you dislike.

To the best of my knowledge the IDF didn't claim that the number of casualties is less, only that a large number of them, perhaps half, were Hamas operatives who ran to attack the retreating rescuers.

Armchair,

The versions of the rescue that I wrote weren't incompatible with that of Yuyutsu. I was talking solely about the Gazan families who were complicit in holding the hostages and died as a result. He was talking about the wider Gazan groups who were either Gazan soldiers who attacked the rescue mission or were caught in the cross-fire. I don't dispute what he wrote, he doesn't, I think, dispute what I wrote.

mhaze,

As a self-proclaimed "astute observer," you seem to miss
a lot of things. Including typos that people may make
in their postings. Give them some latitude - especially
when people have made their positions on issues quite
clear previously.

Nah. You don't insult people. You're an "astute observer."
Just as Trump had the election stolen from him. And Pell was
exonerated.

Instead of "astute" there's a few other adjectives that come
to mind.

Go on supporting Israel - after all they're only defending
themselves against aggressors.

Dear Foxy,

«Go on supporting Israel - after all they're only defending
themselves against aggressors.»

Won't you like to support Israel too?

Israel is under gruesome attacks from all directions - from Hamas, from Hezbollah, from Iran and its other Middle-Eastern satellites, from Netanyahu, from his Nazi companions, from the Messianic Jewish settlers of the West Bank, just to name its major, but not the only, enemies.

Supporting Israel is not opposed to also supporting the native population of the region, including those Syrians that were brutally cut off from Syria following World-War-I, when Britain and France (with Australia's support) separated them from their Syrian brothers and sisters by drawing an arbitrary line on the map; and who only much later started calling themselves "Palestinians". Support them too - why not, but support Israel too!

Myself and the author of this article support Israel, so should you: make Israel great again, help it out of its present darkness, make it again "a light unto the nations"¹ - small in territorial size but great in spirit!

___
¹ While I do not approve of that foolish concept of "nation", that is the original and commonly-used Biblical expression: I personally would rather use "a light unto the world".

Yuyutsu,

As a youngster I fully supported Israel. I believed in
it so much that I wanted to go work and live on a kibbutz.
What I do not support is the actions of the current Israeli
government. I was sure that I made that clear. I also
have admired the author of this article. In this case
I disagree with him. Israel is guilty of war crimes.

I have already explained why.

Oh, Foxy...it was just a typo! Oh well in that case.

You meant to type 'seeking' and instead your dyslexic fingers typed 'issued'. Happens all the time!

Seriously, why is it so hard to just own up and move on?

Dear Foxy,

«In this case I disagree with him. Israel is guilty of war crimes.»

This is debatable (yet I rather not enter that debate now because that would require an agreed precise definition of "who Israel is"), but either way, whether or not Israel is guilty of war crimes, the author seems in every way correct in detailing why GENOCIDE cannot be among these crimes. Nowhere does the author claim that Israel is not guilty of other war crimes.

My personal view on that matter is that war crimes (not including genocide) were indeed committed by Israel's government as well as by particular Israeli citizens, but not by Israel or the IDF as such.

mhaze,

Seriously, why are you so excessively concerned
with minor details in an attempt to try to divert
the issues involved?

Stop being so pedantic and we just may have a
discussion.

______________________________________________________________________

Yuyutsu,

I can't argue with your logic.

Yuyutsu,

There are many sources on the web detailing Israeli
war crimes and those of the IDF. You can d the IDF.
Additionally, the International laws are also
explained including what constitutes a war crime.

In any case my judgements are based on verifiable
facts. I prefer not to accept opinions based on
unexamined evidence. It's called prejudice, and has no
place in serious argumentation.

I have no further interest in arguing with you.
You said you prefer opinions to facts.
I'm sure you shall find others on this forum who
also prefer opinions to facts.

I'll leave you to speak to them.

Cheers.

What is the ultimate intent of the publicly stated Israeli war aim of “the elimination of Hamas”?

That is only a first step in the Israeli plan to annex Gaza, in the same way that Portuguese Timor was annexed by its powerful neighbor in 1976, with Australian complicity, and against UN resolutions favoring self-determination.

The destruction of most of the infrastructure in Gaza makes little sense unless it is a rational means to an end.

The end is depopulation. Making the territory unlivable will aid depopulation prior to annexation, reconstruction and re-population by Israel.

That is the rational aim of Israeli military strategy in Gaza: it is plain to see by those of us who are realists.

Absent this aim of annexation, the military destruction is senseless and so done only for gratuitous revenge and the sadistic infliction of suffering and mass murder of women and chidren as collective punishment.

Dear Smokehaze,

«What is the ultimate intent of the publicly stated Israeli war aim of “the elimination of Hamas”?»

There is no such intent.

It is just propaganda, just a slogan - everyone knows that this is not possible.

The war continues aimlessly because Netanyahu needs it for his personal and political survival. He doesn't want to win the war, not even revenge or destruction, not even annexation, he doesn't want any conclusion, he just wants this war to last forever. Why would he care about the incidental fate of the Gazan people when he doesn't even care about his "own" Israeli people?